New artist grade WS oils from Talens

You're welcome Dayle!

For anyone who's interest in winning a set of the Cobra Water Mixable Oils. Check out their facebook page they're running a contest.

Here's the link again: https://www.facebook.com/cobra.wmo

Thank you Janet, You are so kind to let us know.....I will check it out.

I'm curious about how Cobra makes their oils miscible. In the brochure that came with the sample, it mentions that oils can be made mixable by using an emulsifier, but they they don't come right out and say that's what they do. They only imply it.

Some brands use a modified oil, others use emulsifiers or do both. Holbein, from what I understand, uses the same oil that they have in their regular oil line, and add an emulsifier. I think Berlins are that way too. Artisans and Max use modified oils. Since those two tend to sometimes have stiffness issues for me, I believe the modified oil may be the culprit.

In the Facebook link Janet posted there's a comment by them that reads "The fineness of Rembrandt oil colours are equal to Cobra, but Rembrandt has about 10% higher degree of pigmentation." That bothers me somewhat. Rembrandts have never been one of my favorite oils. It sounds like how W&N differs between their Artist and Artisan oils.

David, I would guess that maybe they went with an emulsifier like Holbein and Lukas Berlin because of the way they behave with water which sounds comparable to Holbein and Lukas Berlin.

It certainly would make things easier if their was a real way to quantify pigment load and filler. Same issue with all types of paint I guess. I have to wonder who decides what is an artist grade paint and exactly what is the criteria. For me though I'll just stick with the use it and if I like it stick with it test.

I tried out my sample of Cobra Pyrrole red at a plein air workshop last week. The other WMOs I was using were W&N Artisan and Holbein Duo Aqua. I did note that on the palette the Cobra paint formed a "skin" before the other brands did. The workshop was on Whidbey Island, Washington, so it was fairly humid. I'll be trying it outside in drier areas over the next couple of weeks and we'll see how that goes.

My use of Pyrrole red was limited; e.g. adding it to mixtures of ultramarine and lemon yellow to get the color I wanted for middle distance evergreens (adding a complement to lower intensity). Artisan Cadmium Red Medium is what I would use from my standard palette for this. Some artists were painting flower scenes with lots of red poppies. I think Pyrrole red would have been a great base color for that too.

Royale Talens indicates all their colors have a similar drying time. I will welcome a consistent drying time for my studio work (and especially quicker drying time for mixtures with a lot of titanium white).

Jim, Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the Pyrrole Red sample. It sounds good so far.

On their Facebook page I asked how they make the oil miscible. The reply was "Cobra Water Mixable Oil Colors Cobra is based on linseed oil. Half of it is a modified linseed oil, the other half non-modified. For the non-modified part an emulsifier is added..." This is similar to how others do it also.

This open dialog to the company is a good sign. Good customer service is welcomed.

A couple more bits of information from Cobra:
Their whites use linseed oil instead of safflower which is more common (all their paints use linseed.) Safflower is typically used since it is lighter in color, but has a weaker oil structure than linseed oil and dries more slowly.

Their brochure says they have 35 single pigment colors, but I counted only 32 on the chart.

David,

Thank you for your knowledge and insight into the details of WSO's -- for me it has been very helpful.

You are very kind to share it!

Jim,

Thank you for sharing how you have discovered "Cobra -wso" are working for you....It was interesting to me how it formed a skin before the others... I look forward to hearing how it response to the “more” drier environment when you work with it.....I have yet tried mine....waiting for the painting which is calling for it

Well I ordered the Cobra WMOs in CYM, and both whites, and 2 of their mediums. I haven't yet used the pyrole red tube, so I'm saving it to mix with the other colors. Dick Blick said I should get it by July 15th, so I'm preparing canvases and pictures to paint. Praying they work out as well as I hope. I'll let you guys know how they work for me.

Dayle

Great Crystal -- hope you enjoy the New Cobra wso's -- I look forward to hearing how you like them and how they paint....it is always fun getting new paint and idems for painting!

Thank you for letting us know.

Looking forward to hearing what you think of them, Crystal.

Dayle, I'm also looking forward to hearing what you think of them.

Well, I'm crazy in love with the Cobra WMOs. They remind me so much of the regular Rembrandt oils, I can't really tell the difference. All I did was paint a very small color chart, but I know that these are the paints for me. They're nice and creamy, yet stick together without being sticky--something between the W/N Artisans and the Lukas Berlins. I've always used the RYB instead of the CYM, but I'm amazed at the colors I can get with the CYMs that I couldn't get with the RYB. The Magenta with a touch of the yellow makes a perfect red, and the violets I can get with the Magenta and Phalo Blue are amazing. The only thing I wish I had done different was to get a darker yellow. I bought the Permanent Lemon Yellow and should have bought the Permanent Yellow Light instead. It took me about 10 times more yellow than magenta to get a good orange. I bought the regular Phthalo Blue instead of the Primary Cyan, since the Cyan Blue is just Phthalo Blue with white, and I'm glad I did, so that I can get some good darks. I'm very, very excited. Now if I can just find some time to paint.
Dayle

Thanks for all the input. You definitely sound excited about them. Judy

I am looking forward to trying more of the Cobra paints and hearing what others think, I only have the sample sent to me, I was also wondering Dayle - how were the tubes, did they seem more substantial than the sample tube did, which to me seemed thin and seemed to bend and dent easily?....

Thank you so much for your information on them Dayle....I can't wait to hear how you are enjoying them when you paint a full canvas. Very nice!

Dana: The sample tube seemed very flimsy, but that was for just a tiny amount of paint. The Royal Talens Rembrandt Oil Colors and the Royal Talens Cobra WMOs seem to have pretty much the same type of tube. These tubes are not as heavy as the Winsor Newton tubes. I did spring a leak in one of my Rembrandt tubes a long time ago, and my teacher told me to wrap it well in duct tape. That was at least 6 years ago, and I checked it recently (I'm thinking of giving them to a friend) and the paint seems to be just fine. I'll tell you more as soon as I can.
Dayle

Well, the Cobra color chart that I did yesterday was painted with a mixing knife, so it was painted thicker than if I had used a brush. I finished it about 2pm yesterday. When I checked it this morning it was still very sticky, so I put it out on the deck around 9am this morning. Today was about a 90+ degree day, with low humidity and the chart was drying directly in the sun, not shade. When I got home around 4pm, all the colors on the chart were barely dry to the touch. If I was planning on painting over it, I would probably wait until tomorrow morning or afternoon, to be sure it was truly dry enough.
Due to a slight family crisis, my 33 year old step-son will be moving in with us this weekend, so I have to clean out my studio so that he has somewhere to sleep. It has every kind of craft available in it, so it might be a few days before I can actually paint.

Dayle

I am sorry Dayle for your family crisis....I hope all goes well for you and all in volved.....also, while you have more in your home that you are able to find a place to paint and just relax....you will be in my thoughts I truely hope all goes well for you all.

Thank you for the info on Cobra and the drying time so far.

Dana: Thank you for your kind words. I guess I didn't explain things very well. We just have to clean up the room I use as my winter studio and craft room and put a bed, dressers, etc. in there. There is a nice table and chairs with an adjustable umbrella on the deck, in back of the house. Once everything is straightened out, I will be able to paint on the deck. I really love the heat of summer time, and I'll get real sunlight, so it will probably just a be a week or less before I can paint again.
My stepson is eager to get his own place, ASAP, so I imagine he'll be gone by Winter. Still happy and excited about my Cobra WMOs.
Dayle

That's great and you'll get the wonderful vitamin "D" that all of us here in Seattle miss, infact most of my patients take Vit. "D" per Dr's orders.....it will be refreshing also to be out in the open....I am glad you will have a place to paint --- I know for me I need to be able to paint, seems to be a must for me.

I am looking forward to hearing how painting a canvas goes also and how others like using them too.....It great to have this forum and learn from each other, thank you for sharing.

Not to be a downer on this new product, but just to toss this out: one of the main issues with Artisans and MAX has been a "stiffness" complaint that's been hard to nail down the cause. I have some old tubes of these that are fine, others too stiff. I have a suspicion that some just don't age very well. Might be how the binder reacts with certain pigments, or something else. Since Cobra also uses a modified oil, I'm curious how time will affect them as well. So, buy them now and paint like crazy!

David, I've used Artisans for many years, and I find them just stiff enough - or maybe I should say they have a good amount of body. But I left some of my painting supplies in the car for a few weeks during some very cold winter days and the Artisan paints that were out in the freezing temperatures got stiff enough that I have to use a tube wringer to squeeze them out. They never went back to normal. (I won't ever keep my palette in the freezer!)

I wonder if any of the other brands react/change when exposed to prolonged temperature changes? Maybe some of these paints have been stored or transported in not-so-ideal conditions before they reach their retail destinations.

Cobras are lose enough that a little additional stiffness would be fine. Yesterday I was starring lovingly at my paint chart and noticed that the Cobras dry with a nice sheen--this is true of the Rembrandts also. I would say that the finish is a satin or semi-gloss and that is painting straight from the tube, with no mediums. I know some people like to paint to a matt finish, so that may be important to you. To me, it's a gift--the thing that has always drawn me to oil paints is the transparency and the gloss. I understand that they will lose some of the sheen when mixed with water.

Dayle