Define professional artist

I recently heard of a heated exchange between two artist over being defined as a "professional" artist.

How do you determine this?

I could see where there would be a real debate, especially between two people..one with formal art education and one who is self taught or naturally talented. I don't think education is a criteria.

Do you make a living at it? Maybe that makes you a professional, but then some people scuff up paintings done by elephants. Is the elephant a professional painter?

Do you do fine art or abstract or just from the heart like Grandma Moses. Is she a professional painter. She sure sold a lot of her paintings.

I don't think there is an answer. If you think you are a professional painter, take pride in what you do and others enjoy what you have done, what does it matter what name you give it.

Judy

I love your reference to the elephants. I must remember that because I had considered the definition as someone who makes a living primarily from painting or has formal training. But that would be a transitive thing - you may not have formal education and go in and out of times where you can make your living by art.

I guess it really is subjective.

I humbly remain,
an artist.

I found theses definitions on the internet and I think technically it would be accurate. Think of sports when is someone considered a professional athlete? When they make money. My husband helped me out with this one. His father played both professional hockey and lacrosse.

A professional artist is one who chooses to market his/her artwork on a regular basis in a businesslike manner whether or not he/she has achieved a high level of competence.

An amateur artist is one who prefers to create solely for the joy of doing so with no expectation of financial gain or an artist who is in an early stage of learning the craft of art. Competency can be at any level from high to low.

I do think that this definition is a little simplistic and we have a tendency to equate professional art with someone who is skilled at solving artistic problems.

Dale, I think you're rite about it being subjective if someone chooses to think in terms of the quality of work as the answer to that one will be different from everyone. You're a professional artist as per the technical definition and you're very skilled and the second definition would apply to you as well.

Some choose to go further and tack on a certain level of recognition as part of the criteria but I think that's one step too far and we get into artists that we usually equate with master artists.

Thanks for the input Janet. For me, I don't consider myself professional. I do it primarily for the joy of painting - though I love to be able to sell my work.

I may pass on your definitions to the group who were discussing this - or maybe not. Don't want to add fuel to the fire.

I can remember a few people we all met previously who felt that they were the only professional artists in the group and snubbed their noses at everyone else.

I have met the criteria at different times in my career, but I don't want to label myself as a professional artist, because it gives an air of superiority where there necessarily is none. Because I say that you or I are a professional artist, does not make our work any better or worse than people who do not feel the need for that title.

Judy

My gut reaction is professionals earn money or make a living from what they do. Nothing to do with talent or style. But then I start thinking it through and stuff gets murky. Thomas Kinkaid earns a lot of money... but is he a pro artist or a pro marketer And what about a full-time artist who doesn't try to sell his/her work, but donates lessons and works to charities? What if an artist sells work but also has an non-art job?

So many "what if's"

Good luck Dale with approaching this subject again with the group.

Judy

Thanks. I might keep my heaad if I avoid bringing up the subject.

By the way - I started a new blog and would love feedback
www.artbydale-cook.blogspot.com

Dale, I really like your new blog! Great idea to show your progress pics.

Dale, your blog is beautiful. I strongly encourage you to include some copyright wording on the site to protect you work. Here is what I have at the bottom of my art site. I'm going to have to check my blog to see if there was a place for copy right.

Quote :

Copyright 2009: www.xxxxxx.com

No copies of any form are permitted
without written consent from Judy Filarecki, or her legal
representative

Judy

Thanks for the advice - I thought I had a watermark on the pics but they didn't show up. I will add that text and try again to add the watermark.

You might look at some other art sites and see how they word it.

Judy

Very nice, Dale! Love seeing all the progress pics with the final painting.
I think I would re-size the large image that opens when you click on the one in the blog. That's got enough pixels to work with as far as copying or even printing it. You might find your work on one of those Chinese sites that offers hand-painted masterpieces!
Although it's not necessary to state copyright info on your site or work (the copyright exists the moment you create it), it's still worth a notice for those that think everything on the web is up for grabs.
...besides, it makes you look PROFESSIONAL! -How's that for going back on topic?

callie - sorry for the dumb quesiton - How should I post them? You refer to resizing. Do I limit it to 400 px or something

If you are in the clutches of the Inland Revenue and pay taxes on what you receive for your paintings then such a person must definitely be professional.

Jack
And Dale what a clear and concise blog. A joy to visit. Not like mine which is rather like a car breakdown yard.

That's a good definition of professional. Paying taxes.

Re: the blog: maybe it is concise because I haven't really had time to post too much.

I think if you continue with that layout it'll be first class

Dale - about the resizing - When I clicked on the Fundy Trail painting it opens up a larger version, with the option to see an even larger one. The final picture was at 1600 x 1200 px. Plenty big enough to make a very nice copy from!
I think I would resize copies of the painting photos before uploading them so they could only show at a maximum of around 500px when clicked on. At the size they are now, even a watermark wouldn't be too much of a hassle to clone out in Photoshop
You could also have a password protected page on your website where potential byers could log in to have a look at larger versions of the paintings.

Judy's wise words made me visit again and enlarge. Wow! I didn't know you were an animal lover. There was one of Bob Ross's squirls disappearing into the undergrowth. Clever stuff.
Jack
It's sometimes a nonsense world