New artist grade WS oils from Talens

Dale, try to resist the urge to tackle the delivery person... or is that just me.

Well, I can say that this pyrrole seems to be a nice paint, not too oily or dry. A relatively thick masstone layer dried to touch within a day, which is what I would expect from this color.

Based on the chart that came with the package, I like most of their color selections. Not too many mixes, and a cerulean PB35. No PBr7 for their earths, however, which is interesting (no manganese umbers.)

Thank you David for sharing your findings on the sample!

One thing that someone from Canson mentioned was the availability of the Transparent Red Oxide which can't be found in other brands of Water Soluble Oils. That color seems to be a favorite of a lot of artists. I never tried it but I'm looking forward to giving it a try.

He also stated regarding availability in the US and Canada:

"I’ll be posting an exact available date as we approach the beginning of July, but these items will be live in the stores mid-July. We have product in right now and it’s flowing into the distribution chain in the next couple of weeks. As for Canada, the following stores will be carrying it (and maybe more, but nothing firm yet to announce).

Woolfitts
Omer Deserre’s
Aboveground
Wallack’s

Shortly, there will be a full listing of all available stores that are carrying Cobra, through the store locator on the Cobra website."

PR101 (red oxide) is one of those pigments that has a range of transparency with the same ID number. There are other WMO that carry it (as Indian Red or Terra Rosa) but they're of the more opaque variety. It's a nice color, usually mixed with or substituted for Burnt Sienna, PBr7, but is a slower drier.

I'm curious how Talens will now market the H2Oil line along with Cobra.

Thank you David for sharing -- it is very interesting to me how you all know all this info and very informitive for me. Dana

dbclemons wrote:

PR101 (red oxide) is one of those pigments that has a range of transparency with the same ID number. There are other WMO that carry it (as Indian Red or Terra Rosa) but they're of the more opaque variety. It's a nice color, usually mixed with or substituted for Burnt Sienna, PBr7, but is a slower drier.

I'm curious how Talens will now market the H2Oil line along with Cobra.

According the Cobra Facebook page they are phasing it out.

Thank you Kimberly for the heads up! I don't like buying a color, getting use to it and finding out that they're going to discontinue it. I won't bother with that one.

Janet wrote:

Thank you Kimberly for the heads up! I don't like buying a color, getting use to it and finding out that they're going to discontinue it. I won't bother with that one.

I'm not 100 percent certain so you could always email the company and ask, but it was brought up on their FB discussion page.

Kimberly

I'll do that. Thank you!

I heard back from the representative from Canson and he stated:

"We are in no way phasing out of the transparent red oxide, and I’m at a loss as to where she saw that on the facebook page, if you’ve seen a reference to that, please let me know where so I can correct it there. In fact, this color is so important to such a large number of painters, that we intentionally added it to the palette because we found it to be absent from the ranges of water mixable oil colors out there."

Well that's good so the test of the Transparent Red Oxide is still on my list. One thing I can say is that their customer service is fantastic!

David, Thank you for the description of the Transparent Red Oxide. That helps a lot!

Janet wrote:

David, Thank you for the description of the Transparent Red Oxide. That helps a lot!

I must have misunderstood your original question, I'm off to read the discussion board cause I seriously thought that the owner of that board, who works for Talens, stated that they were phasing out the H2Oils and were replacing them with the Cobras.

Ok off to read the discussion board again.

It's on this discussion page that it is stated that H2oils will be phased out
https://www.facebook.com/kbaxterpackwood#!/topic.php?uid=112194922127281&topic=28

again contact customer service and ask them!

Kimberly, so sorry it was my misunderstanding. Your quote had the info on the Transparent Red Oxide and I thought you meant that color was being phased out of the Cobra line. Obviously you're talking about their student grade line of H2oils being phased out. The Transparent Red Oxide is actually part of the new line. Oops!

Last night I was reading the brochure that came with the sample tube of Cobra WMO. It states that the mediums base are vegetable oil. I'm not sure what to make of this--I've never heard of vegetable oil being used in oil painting. Will it harden properly? How much will it yellow? Will it hold up over time? Ordinarly I would just use water and walnut oil, but they say that their mediums will not extend the drying time, and that sounds interesting to me. I have to assume that if they are bringing out a top quality WMO, that they have had to test the mediums sufficiently. Right now I can't go on facebook from our computer. Would anybody like to ask them about this?

Dayle

Janet wrote:

Kimberly, so sorry it was my misunderstanding. Your quote had the info on the Transparent Red Oxide and I thought you meant that color was being phased out of the Cobra line. Obviously you're talking about their student grade line of H2oils being phased out. The Transparent Red Oxide is actually part of the new line. Oops!

thank you for clarifying that~! I didn't know that the H2Oils was student grade. I don't know if I'll ever get this paint grade thing down or not.

Kimberly

Dayle, I posted your question on the Cobra facebook page and I'll keep an eye on it and let you know what the response is.

Kimberly, you're welcome! Rite now officially their are only three brands of WSOs that would be considered artist grade: Holbein Duo Aqua, Grumbacher Max and Royal Talens Cobra. I think for a lot of people it's just exciting to see the way Water Soluble Oils are growing in leaps and bounds.

OK. I didn't realize that Artisan are not considered artist grade. (Michael's lists it as professional) I will have to keep this in mind.

The whole measure of student to professional grade is based on pricing. Since pigment is what adds expense to paint, that's the key factor - how much is used or the use of fillers to lower costs.

For example, if you look specifically at Winsor $ Newton oil paints, the list price of their artist grade "Artists" paint of PB35 cerulean is $35.25 at Blick, the "Artisans" are $16.95, and the "Wintons" are $14.05. Each one is the same 37ml size but uses different amounts of pigment. Its when you try to compare them to different brands that it gets trickier, since you have no idea how each brand is made. You'd just have to buy each one and test them out.

"Hues" by the way, or paints that have substituted colors, are not necessarily an indicator of student grade, as some may tell you. You could have a "hue" mix that has a high pigment load, in some cases, and still be considered artist grade.

Thanks David,
I guess it will be trial and error to find out what paint and brand I like the best and at a cost that I am comfortable with. My Cobra sample arrived today so will test it this weekend.

Crystal1 wrote:

Last night I was reading the brochure that came with the sample tube of Cobra WMO. It states that the mediums base are vegetable oil. I'm not sure what to make of this--I've never heard of vegetable oil being used in oil painting.
Dayle

Unless I am mistaken or misinterpreting the term, vegetable oils are any oil made from plants. This would include all of the usual oils in oil painting - linseed, safflower, poppy, walnut, etc.

Don

Dale wrote:

Thanks David,
I guess it will be trial and error to find out what paint and brand I like the best and at a cost that I am comfortable with. My Cobra sample arrived today so will test it this weekend.

I was at the Des Moines Art Festival yessterday (Iowa) and had opportunity to ask a lot of artists what they were painting with, on what types of substrates, etc. and the anwser was always the same "whatever's on sale".

Most of the paintings were in the $1300 -1800 and higher range.

HTH

Kimberly

Good point Dale, although we like and want the best, in the end, it is the cost we have to consider…factoring in the other things. Dana

Cobra has replied to Dayles' inquiry that I posted on facebook as follows:

"Like most oil colours, Cobra is based on linseed oil. This is the oil derived from the seeds of the flax plant, so it's vegetable. And since linseed oil is used, the yellowing is compairable to regular oils. The mediums are also based on linseed oil, which means that the drying time remains the same.
Take care with half drying oils such as walnut, poppy or safflower oil if layers that contain these half drying oils are over painted with linseed oil based paint. Quality problems may occur such as crackling.
All formulas at Royal Talens are tested thouroughly before going into production. "

Kimberly, I think you made a great point. I think the grade of the paints don't make for a better painting or even a longer lasting painting. From what I've been reading because of the pigment load in the artist grade paints... a little goes a long way but if you can find a good price on a brand that you like I don't think the fact that the artist grade paints with the higher price will save you that much.

DAK723: Looks like you were right about the vegetable oil. I assumed that vegetable oil had to come from vegetable plants.
Kimberely: I'm sure that good artists can paint with whatever they are given. I have noticed though that people that originally painted with W/N Artist oils seem to have little trouble switching over to W/N Artisan oils. On the other hand, I never liked W/N Artist oils and seem to be having a lot of trouble with their Artisan WMOs. My favorite regular oil was Rembrandt buy Royal-Talens, so I am hoping that the new Cobras will be easier for me to use. I like a creamier paint anyway, so if it's not Cobra then there are other brands that are creamy.
Janet: Thanks for checking on the "vegetable oils" used by Cobra. That sets my mind at rest.