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 Flower WIP

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JanG



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PostSubject: Flower WIP   Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:14 pm

Wow, it's been so long, I'm having to look at the instructions for uploading an image!

This is an experiment and the first wso I've had time to do in ages. I've always wanted to try a grisaille and the photo ref for this seemed ideal.

This is the painting done in shades of gray (not quite 50 of them, lol!)




Here is the painting after attempting to glaze. It's been drying for about 3 days but the background still wasn't completely dry and started to lift - will let it dry a bit more then try again:



I painted the grisaille in Lukas Berlin wso's but had a handful of the Aqua Duos and started using those for glazing. Wow! wow! They are so much easier to work with than the Berlins or the Grumbacher Max (that I've had for years). I want to get more of the Aqua Duos, I think they really make a big difference.
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watermixableguy
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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:35 pm

Coming along very nicely. I have a hard time with floral paintings and admire them!
I have also tried Duos and like them too!

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JanG



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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:58 am

Thanks Alan,

I noticed a bit of leaf that I covered with background and have fixed that as well as adding a bit of the center of the flower. I'm kinda at a loss as to where to go from here as I'm really an alla prima painter for the most part!
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ftariqtx
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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:59 pm

Very nice start Jan,... I love the Duo... I am not going back to any other paint... Well a little more exploration... a little more reading will get you to completing this... Smile

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JanG



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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:29 am

Thanks, Faisal,

Yes, more practice & more reading is definitely needed! My main question is how to keep the layers thin enough to glaze but keep the fat over lean rule. I know Dayle said to add a drop or two of oil to the thinner for each layer and I think that's good advice.

Anyway, hope to be able to get back to this today. It's supposed to be snowy and cold and a good day to stay in and paint.
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ftariqtx
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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:00 pm

Alan also does his work in layers... maybe he can share something with you... I do all my work Alla Prima.

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watermixableguy
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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:57 pm

I usually start my base layer with a little bit of thinner added to the paint.

If I want the base layer paint REALLY thin, then I also add more thinner but also a little medium. Otherwise the paint consistency will break down.

Each successive layer has more medium ('oil', if you will). For example layer 2 for me is usually pure paint from the tube, layer 3 has medium added to the pure paint, etc.

I did have paint cracking problems when I 'disobeyed the law of fat over lean', so I know it is a real 'law'.

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ftariqtx
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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:31 am

Alan,... would the following be correct..

1) first Layers:
option A: Use either paint straight out of the tube OR
option B: Use paint + Thinner (because thinner will evaporate leaving the paint only) OR
option C: Use paint + Thinner + Medium

2) second layer:
Use medium + paint (but the medium has to be more than the medium in option C above, if option C was used for the first layer)

3) third layer:
Use More medium + Paint.

4) as the layer goes up in number more medium has to be added.

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JanG



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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:27 am

Good information, Alan, thanks!

From what I've been able to find out, I think your statements would all be correct, Faisal. That's what I'm doing and it seems to be working so far. However, I'm sure the painting isn't dry enough to really determine whether it will crack or not. Alan, how long did your painting dry before cracking and what did you do about it?

Here's another update - not much more done and I think I'm almost to the point where I'd like to go ahead and finish it - is that advisable after all the layering? I know it will take some opaque paint in heavier applications & I don't want to do anything to ruin it. In the instructions I've found on the web, artists seem to layer until the very end then they just add highlights and small details in the heavier paint. I feel as if it will take many more layers for the petals and the paint is already drying more slowly than before. Does a layer have to be totally dry before adding another? Questions, questions!

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JanG



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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:11 am

I came back to answer my own questions! lol

I don't have to layer the entire painting but it would probably be advisable to continue on with the petals and leaves at least.

Yes, each layer needs to be DRY before adding another one. Patience is recommended which I'll be sure to order when I place my new art supply order! lol
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ftariqtx
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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:17 pm

Cool... waiting for the grand finale!.. Smile

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watermixableguy
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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:44 pm

Hi Faisal;
I agree with your numbered steps, just noting that in layer 2 I usually just paint from the tube, no added medium unless I need to have the paint more buttery (as you know, Artisan paints are sometimes too 'dry' coming out of the tube.

Jan, I didn't realize the paint was going to crack until months later, as it dried. I scraped at the paint with a scouring pad or sandpaper, then painted over it, using a generous amount of medium in the new layer. Live and learn, but it is heartbreaking to see your painting cracking.

best of luck!

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judyfilarecki
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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:40 pm

Hi Jan.

I really like the progression you are showing in glazing this flower. Sometimes what I would do because of the delay time between drying layers, is to work on several paintings at a time. I helps reduce the frustration of a layer not being dry enough.

I've never glazed over an entire painting, but just in specific areas to help harmonize the over-all painting. It is usually my final layer except for highlights.

I go along with Alan as far as one of the layers being paint right out of the tube. That is a good layer to put you more intense colors. this would cut down on the number of glazing layers you have to apply.

I did have one painting crack after about 6 months because of not following the fat-over-lean rule. It happened in an area where I applied heavier paint for an impasto effect.

The one thing I learned from other artists is that if you do alla prima painting, then you don't have to worry about the fat-over-lean rule. I've never tried painting that, though so I can't say if this is correct.

I look forward to seeing the finished painting. I'm sure it will be beautiful.

Judy

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watermixableguy
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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:26 pm

Hi
I did witness someone applying a layer of glaze. She took medium, then added the smallest conceivable bit of a TRANSPARENT oil colour to the medium. (you need to be sure it is a transparent colour, NOT an opaque colour!)
Then she just added the glaze to some flower petals, bringing the slightest hint of that colour to the finished work. It was beautiful.
I have never glazed anything, only added paint layers and a year later: gloss varnish

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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:21 pm

All wonderful tidbits everybody... thanks... very valuable info and if nothing a direction to think about... Smile

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JanG



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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:52 am

Thanks for all the wonderful advice. I know glazing is supposed to add depth to a painting but I'm not so sure I'll do it again anytime soon.

Here's my latest update. I think I just have one or two more layers on the petals and leaves plus some adjustments. I moved the leaf at the bottom right as it was "kissing" the petal above it. I also added more leaves & have started adjusting the color on them. The photo makes the lavender shadows really stand out but they're more subtle in real life. Also, I think I've finished the background & I really, really like it. I know you can't see it in this photo but its very dark greens, some lighter greens, deep purple in a couple of areas and a bit of orangey-gold. It's all very subtle but I think it really works with the painting.

If anyone sees anything off, please let me know, I'm here to learn and don't mind constructive criticism at all.


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judyfilarecki
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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:12 pm

It has really come out nicely.
You mention some deep purple and orangey gold which I'm assuming are in the background. Perhaps adding a thin glaze of the purple to the shadows of the flower and some reflected green on the underside of the long pedal just under the center of the flower might add some vibrancy to the gray areas. You could also probably add a light glaze of the orangey gold to the pedals someplace just to add harmony to the whole thing.
Judy

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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:33 pm

I was just looking at your "White Althea" digital painting and I see that you did exactly what I suggest above. You can see how much more life it puts into the flower. Of course, you may have all ready done that in this one. It is just hard to see.
Judy

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JanG



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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:55 pm

Yes, the shadows are lavender, not gray, and I'm glazing with a bit of yellow in the white paint with a bit of the orangey gold reflecting from the stamens onto the upper petals. Since it's all thin glazes, it's not showing up much in the photo here. However, your suggestion about the reflected light from the leaf under that one petal is excellent and I hadn't thought of it. Thanks. Oh, the background looks splotchy here too and it's not irl.
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Crystal1



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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:26 pm

I think your glazed flower is gorgeous. I love the effect of glazing, but haven't actually done much of it myself. Great job.
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JanG



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PostSubject: Re: Flower WIP   Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:01 am

Thanks, Crystal, this is for my daughter so I'm really holding my breath that it comes out well! I also belong to another art forum where a person is using both wso's and regular oils to see if anyone can tell the difference and to find out which she prefers.

I got challenged to paint another flower alla prima to see if there's a visible difference. I do plan to paint another, similar. flower to see if I can tell the difference & I'll let you know how it turns out.
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