What brand of Water Soluble Oils do you use?

Janet, I forgot to add, since you do plan to pick up some Artisan paints: You should do fine with just the Artisan painting medium to begin with. Further thinning with water is labor intensive, but it is doable.

Start with 2-3 drops of medium per inch or so of paint and mix in thoroughly. If they are still too stiff, don't add more medium to get them softer or your paints will take forever to dry. Instead, add water just a drop at a time. That will minimize the gummy issue. Use your palette knife to do all the mixing; it's more efficient and thorough than using your brush.

If you decide to use the Artisans over the long term, it would be worth getting the thinner. You would add it the same way as the water, but the mixing will be much easier and quicker.

Thank you Debra! Thank you for the additional information! I already have some tubes of the Artisan but was never able to find a medium to use with it and I need to purchase more as I don't have enough colors to use for the split primary palette which I usually use. I might try just using the primaries with the Walnut Oil in the meantime.

It was very interesting to read what everyone has to say about the different brands of WMOs. I use the W&N Artisans mainly because a friend gave me a starter set and they are the only brand carried at the art supply store where my son works. In the town where I live the only brand available is Lukas, and I've bought a tube of that when I ran out of a colour and am quite pleased with it as well. I hadn't painted with oils since art school, and that was aeons ago, so I cannot compare WMO to regular oils, though I was given some regular oils around the same as the WMOs and I've only painted one painting with the regular oils, so that must tell you something.

I like the consistency of the W&N Artisan paints and have only experimented a bit with painting mediums. I have tried the Max quick dry medium and like it a lot, but it isn't available locally, or from most Canadian on line suppliers that I've checked. The Artisan quick dry medium is like painting with honey - and it dries with extra sheen too. The blending capabilities of the paint when using it aren't good. I've used a odourless solvent as a paint thinner and have been happy with the results. I wanted to try the artisan wmo painting medium, but when I ordered it I made a typeo and got the stand oil instead. I just received it and haven't had a chance to try it out yet.

Sofie

Hi Sofie, Thank you for sharing your experiences with different mediums and brands. Great information!

If you can get the Artisan thinner, I would encourage you to give it a try. A few drops added to the quick-dry medium improves the flow, and It "feels" better than water. It mixes well with the Graham's walnut alkyd too (for a thin, fast drying under painting).

Callie

Hi everyone,

I've been reading through this and appreciate all of this advice. Awesome!
I'm using Holbein WMOs and am interested in the walnut oil that Judy mentioned.
So far, I have just used the Holbein linseed oil and didn't realize, that apparently, it can spoil over time? And it yellows?

So, because apparently walnut oil is better, where do i get some that will be compatible with my Holbeins?

You are all so precious!
Thanks!
Donna

Oh, and thanks Judy for sending the email update and reminder. I forget to pop in here!

Hi Donna,

W. Graham & Co. makes the walnut oil. They also have a alkyd walnut oil which I believe is faster drying. I just have never used it, because I was warned by the person who first told me about walnut oil, that it sometimes bothers her breathing. She and I both have asthma, so I have not tried it. I think it might be Callie that uses the Alkyd, and she mentions it in some of her posts. I'll look around and see if it is Callie.

I keep it refrigerated when not in use. Someone recommended that so there would be less chance of it going rancid over time.

The emails, by the way, are automatic for any thread that you have submitted in unless you choose not to follow them. but you're welcome anyway. I was wondering where you were.

Judy

PS Check out the progress on my experiment putting WSO's over watercolor at

https://watersolubleoils.forumotion.com/questions-answers-f5/can-you-use-wso-over-a-watercolor-that-has-fixative-on-it-t34.htm#443

Don't worry about your oil spoiling or going rancid - unless you plan on eating it! ! I use Graham's walnut alkyd to speed the drying time. It has just about no odor, and it works well with any of the wm brands. I don't have asthma, so I don't know how it would work out, but it has less odor than Liquin or Artisan quick-dry.

Cute kitty, Judy (interesting experiment, too).

Thanks Callie,

The walnut oil tends to last me a year or more and stays nice and clear. I had the linseed oil yellow up on me and smell worse than it does, over probably a two year period, so I figure it doesn't hurt to follow the advise I got about the refrigerator, so the walnut oil stays good.

Here in Arizona, I don't have to worry too about the paint drying faster, But back in NY where there is more humidity, the alkyd might be a consideration. I haven't tried the liquin or WN quick-dry either, but I'd probably try the alkyd first if I needed to.

Mozart says thank you. Most times he's pretty cute except when he tries to help me paint.

Judy

I have used Grumbacher Max 2 for a long time and like it.

Hi Judy, I made a comment about Mozart's painting on that thread. He looks almost real. And when you work on the eyes, oh my! And that process of using watercolor first, etc. is so new to me!

Hi brushoff! Welcome to the forum! What medium or mediums do you like to use with the Grumbacher Max? I have a set of that brand but never found what worked with them. I don't use them that often so really didn't take the time to experiment that much.

I know we don't have a lot of responses yet, but I'm surprised Grumbacher Max isn't more popular. Weren't Max the first WS oils? Looks like Lukas is becoming a popular choice (I like their reg. oils). It seems to me, the Lukas Berlins are softer than Artisan and Max. Maybe easier to get used to for painters transitioning from acrylics or watercolor?

Yes Callie they were the first WS Oils and I'm surprised as well. I know Jerry Yarnell uses them and has videos and a FAQs area that may be useful for people working with this brand here: http://www.yarnellart.com/cart2/commerce.cgi?page=FAQs-Oils.htm&cart_id=1260376388.2828

I really like the Lukas Berlin. I haven't tried using them on their own. I usually use them with the Holbein. They mix well together and seem to have similar properties when it comes to adding water. Maybe next month I'll do a Lukas Berlin only painting month. Rite now I'll be doing that with the Winsor & Newton Artisan.

I've never used the Lukas paints by themselves either. I've tried a few colors from various brands when ever I need to re-stock my supplies. So everything gets mixed in with the Artisans I usually paint with.

It will be interesting to read about your findings.

I use WN's Artisan. (Is this is a student brand?)

I am uncertain at present as to what I can use for a fast drying underpainting.

Does anyone know if mixing acrylic with the WS oils works for the first layer? I hate the

thought of buying more paint, and letting my acrylics go to waste.

Hi Ed! I don't think the W&N Artisan would be considered a student brand. The pigment load is higher then the studend grade Winton conventional oils but less then their Artist conventional oils.

You can use acrylics for an underpainting just keep it thin. I've used acrylics several times to tone my canvas and in Sean Dyes' book painting with water soluble oils several artists start with an underpainting in acrylics. I also mix my gesso with acrylics to tone and prepare my canvas. Like you I don't want my acrylics to go to waste so I try to find ways to use them.

Another option for a fast drying underpainting would be to use the Fast Dyring medium with your W&N Artisan.

Thanks Janet.

For my underpainting, I usually start with a light sketch before I block
in the solid color. I'll try an oil-acrylic mixture to see if that helps the binding
but still dry fast.

W&N thinner or fast-drying medium will work better, once I get some. Right now I am
using only water and W&N linseed oil. I'll use the other media posted in the
tips here once I really get going.

Sean Dye's book says that Holbein's Acryla Gouache is ideal for underpainting, so
maybe I'll try that too.

Hi Ed,
I took a tip from Jerry Yarnell.

When he does an under painting with acrylics, he applies a very thin layer of WSO linseed oil over the entire painting once the acrylic is completely dry. He gently wipes the oil off just enough so there is just a very thin film of the oil. He explains that this acts as the bonding agent for the WSO's and also helps the paint to flow more smoothly over the acrylic.

Judy

Thanks Judy,

That would be great if it works for me. Thanks for the tip!

I'm a little sceptical though... how does the linseed film bind
to the acrylic? I will try to research that. (As well, I'd be starting
the oil layers off slightly 'fat', but that part's okay)

I'll let everyone here knows how it turns out.

Ed, looking forward to hearing how it works out for you and seeing the results. Good luck!

Ed, you're not mixing the oils and acrylics together, are you?
Only Holbein Duo Aqua claims it can be mixed with other types of paints. For the other ws brands, mixing with acrylic would be a big no-no.

We'll be discussing and adding more information and techniques about using other water based paints with or under ws oils in the Water Mixable Mix-Up forum.

Callie, mixing my Holbein WSOs with acrylics is something I do plan on testing at some point. I have big doubts that it will be stable because of the extreme differences in drying time. It would probably take a year after I completed a painting in this way that I'd be satisfied at viewing what the effects are. I'll probably just do something really basic that I don't have to invest a lot of time in but I guess at some point someone should try it.

Just a little update on my test with the W&N Artisan. I've started working on some swatches for my Holbein. I think I've come to the conclusion that I'll stick with the Holbein. I need a thicker paint and a brand that I don't have to be really careful with the mediums. I find that I have more control over thicker paint and I can get the affects that I want. Not a waste of money as I can bring the W&N to my camp in the spring to use them their.

The Artisan mediums work fine with Reeves WMO's. I don't normally use student grade paints but the center at which I'm teaching bought Reeves for the students to use. So I brought home the Reeves to use so I was certian how they behaved. Btw the Reeves WMO's smell just like the Artisans. I'm not that thrilled with the colors but for a beginning student I suppose they are ok enough - fwiw I don't get a choice in the matter.

Kimberly