What type of wood makes a good support

I've been watching a lot of painting videos and their is one artist in particular that states that he uses wood panels for his paintings. I was curious before regarding using wood as a support as Chantal and David brought it up in another thread. Is their types of wood that would be better then others to paint on? Any special way to prepare it?

I've written my own opinions on the subject in an article on my website:
http://www.dbclemons.com/choosewood.htm

Short version: if you want to paint on the wood itself, plywood is a better choice, in my opinion. Composites can be less expensive and have a smoother surface, but are almost always made of poorer quality materials. If I use a composite panel, it's only as a support for paper or canvas glued to it.

Wood panels are heavier than stretched canvas, and can't be rolled up. The larger they get the more bracing they'll need on the back, which may an issue if you're shipping them to shows.

David, Thank you so much! You covered the topic thoroughly on your site. Plywood it will be. I'll probably start with some small ones. I really like the idea of getting whatever size I want. Sometimes I have to crop a photo to fit to canvas and I lose some parts of the image that I actually really like. I described to my husband what I needed regarding the grade and type of wood so he'll be able to point me in the rite direction. I know you said "if you want to paint on the wood itself" does that mean I don't have to prep it in any special way?

What I mean by "paint on the wood itself" is not gluing paper or canvas to the wood surface as your ground. If you paint on wood directly then it'll need to at least be externally sized with glue or shellac. Priming isn't required but is a good idea.

Thank you David for the explanation!

A few things that I've researched about working on plywood. Just thought I'd share in case someone else would like to try it:

"A good alternative that oil painters use is plywood. There is good quality plywood available made of birch, poplar or mahogany that is suitable for oil paints if prepared correctly. Do not paint on soft woods such as pine because they contain more resins and do not resist moisture very well."

This site is excellent on how to create a brace for larger panels and how to prepare the wood:

http://www.askmaurice.org/wood.html

I would actually say that softwoods like pine or fir DO resist moisture well, probably better than hardwood, they just don't take paint or adhesive very well, and are more acidic.

When I was first starting out with oils as a kid, I didn't know what wood types to AVOID. I just picked up a sheet of yellow pine plywood at a local lumberyard, put down a few coats of acrylic ground and started painting. I still have a couple of those and they actually don't look too bad; although, it's only been about 30 years. The surface has yellowed somewhat, and the veneers have started to delaminate in some places along the edges.

There are different varieties within each species and some work better than others. Some I'd recommend are yellow poplar, aspen, or silver maple. Aspen has a nice tight grain. Paper birch is not bad but more acidic than some of the others. There's a type of Korean poplar that's almost pH neutral as it grows from the ground. The main details to look for is how well it takes glues or paint, and how much shrinkage. The aesthetic issues are with the coloring and smoothness of grain.

Thank you David for the additional information!

What type of glue would you recommend? I know the thread I added said rabbit skin glue but I really doubt I'd be able to get that locally. Is their an alternative that would be more readily available.

Janet,
I read the askmaurice link you gave and he mentioned birch plywood. I have some baltic birch plywood which I have used for draws and roll out shelves because of it's carpenter grade properties. It is very fine grained and very stable.

I was thinking about trying some of that and using the liquitex clear gesso you mentioned at https://watersolubleoils.forumotion.com/water-soluble-oils-f5/liquitex-clear-gesso-t118.htm

I have painted on wood previously, but always with acrylics, but with the clear gesso, I could seal the wood without losing the grain and wood that I love so much. I'll keep you all posted with how it goes.

Judy

Thank you Judy! The clear gesso would probably work really well! I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out.

I check with my art supply store and they do have some so I'll pick it up this afternoon.
Judy

Janet wrote:

...What type of glue would you recommend? I know the thread I added said rabbit skin glue but I really doubt I'd be able to get that locally. Is their an alternative that would be more readily available.

For sizing wood, I prefer shellac. It needs to be of good quality and dewaxed. The main advantage it has over other options is there's no water used and it dries quickly. If you don't want to bother with that and can't get RSG (which would be my 2nd choice) I'd suggest PVA (polyvinyl acetate) Gamblin sells this. Golden sells a medium called GAC 100 that can also work well. If you wanted to paint on that directly instead of priming, PVA can be rather slick under oils and cause adhesion problems.

As I may have mentioned here before, wood can cause staining problems if the size layer is not sufficient. I need at least 2 coats of shellac, 2-3 coats of RSG, and 3-4 for PVA. For water-based applications you need to let the water evaporate completely and that can take several days.

The shellac option sounds good and would be something that I can get locally. The other options I'll put on a list and I'm sure I'll be able to locate something with all the options you've given me. Thank you for your help David I really appreciate it!

Does shallac yellow over time. It seems that I remember that from doing woodworking. I'm not completely sure, though. I have used the Golden GAC 100 successfully under acrylics.

Judy

Nothing's perfect or without some risks. Like many things, not all shellac is the same. Some types are very dark or waxy, and commercial premixed shellac I would not recommend. I may have more faith in it than "experts," but no one's ever been able to tell me exactly what type of shellac they've tested. I recommend a clear or extra blonde dewaxed shellac, but that's just me. Ask me again in a hundred years.

PVA has gone through all sorts of art tests, and hide glue has been used for centuries, if you're concerned about that. Hide glue itself is hygroscopic meaning it will flex in humidity changes, and that can cause potential problems. PVA won't do that, but oil doesn't adhere to it as well, as I mentioned.

There are no guarantees. Oils on PVA may self destruct at some point in the future. That's why painting on canvas glued to the wood is a way to hedge your bet. If the wood fails, the canvas can help the painting survive, and the wood support keeps the canvas firm, which helps the paint.

One more thing about painting on unprimed wood, all wood darkens over time. Even shelves made of bright yellow pine in a drawer that never see light can turn dark brown in only a few years. Priming makes that a non-issue.

I'm in the middle of testing liquitex clear gesso on a baltic birch plywood to see if it seals the wood and to see if the wso's will adhere. I'm assuming it willl work just the same as a white or black gesso, but I want the natural wood grain to show through where I do not paint.

Judy

Here is my painting testing applying WS Oils to wood using liquitex clear gesso.



I put two coats of the clear gesso on an inexpensive plaque I got at Michael's which is probably a walnut plywood.

It gave it a very toothy finish since it raised the grain. I could have sanded it to make it smooth and then put another coat on, but I decided since this was just an experiment, I would leave it as is.

The WS Oils loved the surface. They went on very easily, adhered very well and blended nicely as I worked on the painting. I did it all in one sitting and had no problems with paint lifting as I layered it.

Normally I would do this type of plaque in acrylics so I could put a finished coat on in a few days. With this, I will have to wait probably 2 months or more and then put a varnish on which is suitable for WS Oils and is also appropriate for outdoors, since I would like to hang it someplace near the front door.

For a regular painting, where you cover all the wood, I am very satisfied with the clear gesso, but you could probably use white or black gesso also.

The letters were done by lifting ink from a laser print out using acrylic gel medium. I will post all the steps for this in Mixable Mix-up shortly.

Judy

Judy, It looks great! Thank you for sharing your process! I'm looking forward to seeing the steps.

dbclemons wrote:

Janet wrote:

...What type of glue would you recommend? I know the thread I added said rabbit skin glue but I really doubt I'd be able to get that locally. Is their an alternative that would be more readily available.

For sizing wood, I prefer shellac. It needs to be of good quality and dewaxed. The main advantage it has over other options is there's no water used and it dries quickly. If you don't want to bother with that and can't get RSG (which would be my 2nd choice) I'd suggest PVA (polyvinyl acetate) Gamblin sells this. Golden sells a medium called GAC 100 that can also work well. If you wanted to paint on that directly instead of priming, PVA can be rather slick under oils and cause adhesion problems.

As I may have mentioned here before, wood can cause staining problems if the size layer is not sufficient. I need at least 2 coats of shellac, 2-3 coats of RSG, and 3-4 for PVA. For water-based applications you need to let the water evaporate completely and that can take several days.

What are your thoughts on using sanding sealer? I can make shellac but it's a pain, there's no place locally to purchase it but I do have the components on hand to make my own as I used shellac to redo some of the floors and woodwork in my 1905 victorian.

Kimberly

I'd be interested in knowing whether the sanding sealer would be an option as well. From what I've been reading it sounds like a thinned down version of shellac.

Sanding sealers are made of laquer or polyurethanes. From what I've read they're more or less the same as a varnish but with additives to raise the grain to make it easier to sand the wood. I've not tried them for sizing.

I have tried polyurethane varnishes. The oil based turned yellow and darker rather quickly which I didn't like. The water based version had a pink tint to it, and both have nasty fumes. The surface was about as slick as acrylic and required sanding, which meant at least one extra coat. Seemed like more work than necessary. They may be more durable than shellac but that's not an issue for sizing.

The problem I have with manufactured items like those is they're not designed for art use so I'm not certain if what's used to make them will do more harm than good. They're designed as part of a surface finish for wood. If you want to change it later, you remove it down to the wood and refinish. You can't do that with a painting.

dbclemons wrote:

The problem I have with manufactured items like those is they're not designed for art use so I'm not certain if what's used to make them will do more harm than good.

This is why I'm tending toward the Liquitex Clear Gesso or black or white gesso. It is made for being part of a painting. I liked the way the clear gesso raised the grain so the WS Oils adhered beautifully. I had considered sanding down the last coat to smooth the surface, but I decided i really wanted the tooth for adhesion.

Judy

David thank you for your for the additional information! I think I'll heed your warning and go with a product like the GAC 100 then move to several coats of gesso.

GAC 100 works well. I would use 2 coats on all sides and back. When it's dry to touch, I press it flat for a day or so, then let it sit for about a week to make sure it's completely dry. If you're using an acrylic primer you can paint it on (2 coats) as soon as the sizing is dry, but I'd paint the back with primer also, press it flat for a day, and then wait a week before painting in oil.

Thank you David for all of your help! It's really great to have someone point you in the rite direction.

I just came across this site which has gesso specifically for rigid surfaces. It also has wood panels made of maple and douglas fir. Very interesting.

Here's the link

http://www.art-boards.com/Acrylic%20Panel%20Gesso.htm

Judy