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 Are Hues worth using?

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Doug B



Posts : 17
Join date : 2012-02-05

PostSubject: Are Hues worth using?   Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:59 am

Many of us use WMOs because of health concerns. However, many of the WMO companies still have Cadmiums and Cobalts.

Given that, are the HUES such as WN Cadmium Red Pale Hue a good, valid substitute for the real Cadmium? (Any brand)

I know that the Hues use other chemicals and pigments, but it is the final look that I am concerned with.

There seems to be a sort of snob attitude towards hues-are they that pathetic, or are the hues really a valid substitute for cadmiums, cobalts, etc.?

Cheers

Doug
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Crystal1



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Join date : 2010-02-05
Location Location : Ft Worth, TX

PostSubject: Re: Are Hues worth using?   Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:16 pm

Well, different people have different opinions. The cadmium colors are usually more opaque than most of the hues that I've tried. I happen to like more translucent colors and you can add white to make a color more opaque. Also, many of the hues have more than 1 pigment, while usually a cadmium color has only 1 pigment. More pigments that are already in a color can make it turn to mud sooner when mixed with other colors. Personally, I am perfectly happy with the hues, but if you want to cover your picture in 1 coat, or tend to mix mud a lot, you might prefer to stay with the cadmiums. You'll probably get some other answers too. Happy painting.
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Doug B



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Join date : 2012-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Are Hues worth using?   Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:43 pm

Crystal1 wrote:
Well, different people have different opinions. The cadmium colors are usually more opaque than most of the hues that I've tried. I happen to like more translucent colors and you can add white to make a color more opaque. Also, many of the hues have more than 1 pigment, while usually a cadmium color has only 1 pigment. More pigments that are already in a color can make it turn to mud sooner when mixed with other colors. Personally, I am perfectly happy with the hues, but if you want to cover your picture in 1 coat, or tend to mix mud a lot, you might prefer to stay with the cadmiums. You'll probably get some other answers too. Happy painting.

Opinions were what I was hoping for! Laughing

I don't mind translucent colours at all, being a big fan of permanent aliz. crimson and fr. ultramarine blue.

Interesting thoughts about the mud, but I don't have a lot of trouble with mud. Probably because I have read up on a lot of colour and mixing theory.

Happy painting to you as well. (The day painting stops making me happy is the day that I put my Paint brush down!)

Cheers

Doug
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watermixableguy
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Join date : 2010-06-11
Location Location : New Brunswick, Atlantic Canada

PostSubject: Re: Are Hues worth using?   Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:35 pm

I have just tried "pure" cadmium red for the first time, in Duos. Until now, I have used Cadmium Red Hue(s) in Artisan. The pure cad red is stunningly strong. I have to think that its purity would help me in mixing more briliant colours. Here's hoping!

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ftariqtx
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PostSubject: Re: Are Hues worth using?   Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:28 pm

I have heard that hues fade with time and are not permanent.

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dbclemons



Posts : 154
Join date : 2009-11-16
Location Location : Texas

PostSubject: Re: Are Hues worth using?   Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:19 am

ftariqtx wrote:
I have heard that hues fade with time and are not permanent.

Many pigments that are used as substitutes for others, such as Quindacridones or Phthalocyanines, are as permanent as any other pigment. In some cases they can actually be more permanent than the genuine article, which is why there are so many substitutes for Madders and Alizarin Crimson. Check the label to see which pigments are in it and judge for yourself. It's possible you may have the colors already on hand, so you'd just be buying more. Also, sometimes a color can be substituted for another and not be labeled as a "hue." Cobras, for example, use PR101 for their burnt sienna and umber instead of PBr7. Red oxide is not an inferior pigment by any means, just different.

While it's true that you can mix a few different colors together to get a reasonable substitute, the behavior of that mixture wll be completely different when combined with others in your painting. There's no way that a phthlo blue and titanium white, for example, will mix exactly like a pure cerulean blue with the other colors on your palette. The more pigments you have in the mixture to begin with, the more unpredictable it will be. While phthalo green is transparent, it's also extremely strong tinter and very dark compared to many opaque pigments and can be very overpowering at times. On the other hand, having pigments that stay at a high saturation rate can often be quite useful.

The other issue is price. It can be more expensive to offer pigments like cadmium since it's so heavily regulated or hard to find, so that cost gets passed on to the consumer. Cadmiums may soon go the way of the dodo bird. In the long run you might have to use more hue colors to do what a little bit of the genuine article would do, so where is the savings?

As for any snobs out there, before the mid 19th century no old master ever used cadmium.
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mpernack

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PostSubject: Re: Are Hues worth using?   Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:07 am

Paints with the name hue in them are used instead of the regular pigment for a variety of reasons such as cadmiums and colbalts cause they are heavy metals and have health issues. Some times the pigments are no longer produced. I know Cad hues do tend to have multiple pigments to mimic the real cadmium pigments. The issues comes into play how clean they mix with other colors. One other reason for hues is that they are often cheaper than real ones. You see a lot more hues in student grade paints than professional. It ccan be a lot cheaper to mix 2 cheap pigments than to use 1 pigment. From what I understand about Cad paints they highly restricted and have very harsh laws and regulations reguarding their use.

I was working with someone who purchased Daniel Smith Cad Orange Hue Watercolor and was trying to mix it, it did not act like real cad orange in the mixture. I tend to shy away from Cad paints just because I like single pigment over mixtures.

As for the quality of Hues, they are still lightfast. Unless you happen to get a fugitive pigment. Some pigments are just natually fugitive. Alizarin Crimson is very fugitive and have been part of most pallets for a long time.

If you want a good replacement color wise try the following
Cad Red: Naphthol red (pr170) or pyrole red (PR254)
Cad Scarlet: Pyrole Scarlet (pr255)
Cad Yellow light: Hansa Yellow Light
Cad Yellow Medium: hansa yellow medium
Cad Yellow Dark: Hansa Yellow Dark
Cad Orange: pyrole orange (po73)

Sadly I am not sure if someone makes them for WSOP. Thats what I used for my regular oil replacements.
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JanG



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Join date : 2012-07-20
Location Location : NC - USA

PostSubject: Re: Are Hues worth using?   Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:32 am

I was just looking at the Weber wso's and see that they have replaced the cads with hues. Since I wasn't ready to place an art supply order I haven't investigated the pigments used yet.

Your information will be very helpful when I do look more closely at them.
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mpernack

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PostSubject: Re: Are Hues worth using?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:42 pm

Hues are not always a bad thing, I do not mind hues as long as they are single pigment. Thats my biggest issue when it comes to paints, if they are single pigment colors or not.
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