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 Painterly Designerly Type Learing WSOs ?!?!

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Weaverville Studios

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PostSubject: Painterly Designerly Type Learing WSOs ?!?!   Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:46 pm

Hello, and Wow am I glad I found this community!! Laughing I design automotive interiors here in the Detroit area. I am very comfortable with gouache paint but have long been frustrated that I simply could not get the 'oil look' I was seeking, so I tried acrylics and did not like the way they mixed/worked/ and were overall did not give me the buttery feel at all so I am trying WSOs and while I like the way they work, I really wish I could get each layer to dry in 12 hours, not 4 days.
I'll take any suggestions. Bear in mind that I am not a traditionally trained artist as I am an Industrial Designer with a BS from Art Center College of Design and never had a class or course in oils, so I'm stumbling around a little bit and still learning the terms and techniques-I'm here to learn, so type slowly... Thanks -Mark
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Weaverville Studios

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PostSubject: Re: Painterly Designerly Type Learing WSOs ?!?!   Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:46 pm

Hello there Community ! Here's a few of my gouache paintings through the years...please excuse the modern graphics-I took these Lo-Res shots from a PPT slide show I created and each image was labeled similarly.

I am here to try and understand how better to move from my gouache experience to developing a Water Soluble Oil technique. Please feel free to suggest, send links or advise me on workflow methods that work for you.

In general my gouache workflow is as follows:

1: Loose drawing on cold press board...If the goal is realism, the drawing gets more detailed.
2: I lay in all of the 'wet technique' areas or large areas of gradation, masking off if needed. Let dry overnight.
3: Then I lay in the dryer, thicker paint, with very little water working from top to bottom of the board-oh yes, I paint sitting down using large and small bridges, never have been comfortable with painting with my arms outstretched.
4: Let it dry for a week, then I shoot it with a Hi-Resolution camera for posterity...shoot many shot-bracketing along the way.
5: If I think it necessary, I will fix it to keep the sensitive gouache from being damaged.

If some of you here would be so kind as to share your workflow in Water Soluble Oils, I'd be very grateful. I look forward to hearing from you! Thank you in advance-Mark







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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Painterly Designerly Type Learing WSOs ?!?!   Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:16 am

Hi Mark, welcome to the forum! Love you paintings! You can you can use a quick drying medium for WSOs to make the paint dry faster.

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Crystal1



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PostSubject: Re: Painterly Designerly Type Learing WSOs ?!?!   Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:23 am

Your paintings are really great! The painting technique that you're using for gouche should work well with WMOs, except for the longer drying time. Winsor Newton WSOs has a quick dryer medium that will make your paint dry faster, as Janet said. Lukas Berlin also has a quick dry medium, but from what people have said, it dries so fast you can't finish your painting before all the paint on your palette dries. Also, Winsor Newton artisan has a thinner that you can mix with your quick dry. The thinner can thin the paint, but does not change the drying time. Might be good to mix the thinner and quick dry together to get it to dry in various times. These Winsor Newton products I have used with winsor newton artisan paint, Lukas Berlin, and Cobra wmo's, and they mix just fine. Happy painting!
Dayle
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Weaverville Studios

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PostSubject: Re: Painterly Designerly Type Learing WSOs ?!?!   Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:29 pm

Thanks to you both for your prompt and thoughtful replies....Based on some of the comments I found here, yesterday I ordered some Lukas Berlin Quick-Drying Medium because even with a great school like CCS and two Utrecht stores nearby no one had any WSO speedy-dry mediums on hand so I guess I'll have to wait 3-4 days-oh well.

I hope my impatience doesn't come across as petulant, but in my world, my day-job world as a designer, 99% of what I draw/sketch/render/CAD never gets used as the design process is very much like a funnel-you start with copious ideas and whittle your way down to one design so to me, it's all about how fast I can get get my idea, design or vision down. I had a great gouache teacher in college and quickly felt comfortable with it once I understood the do's and don't"s of the medium but after a number of years I realized that due to the nature of gouache to lift and mix if you tried to paint in layers, and it's reluctance to make smooth buttery blends such as you see in the human form that sooner or later, I would have to evolve into an oil painter or perhaps acrylics. The other factor I never liked about gouaches was what I perceived to be the limits of size-the rates of speed at which gouache set up kind of limits how big you can for example, paint a background so I thought if I ever wanted work 'big' I would have to transition to oils...I work in a home studio so smell and toxicity is important to me and always found at school that turps made feel nauseous whenever I walked through the Fine Arts Dept so I always thought oils were off limits to me so I tried acrylics but I never could get them to break down smoothly or with a nice flow like I could with gouache-acrylics always seemed to break down into lumps of paint and blotchy water, never a nice smooth milky consistency so I quickly bagged up the acrylics, put 'em in storage and did not paint at all for years. When I first read about WSOs I was skeptical until I saw some people doing very good work with WSOs (Lori McKnee for example) that had that ability to blend, make smooth transitions, core shadows, core highlights, glazing etc that I have long admired in traditional oils, so here I am trying WSOs.

Having bought a lot of books, magazines etc on oil painting I have to ask...how are people painting Plien Air or Alla Prima with oils? If it takes four days for paint to dry, how in the world can you work like that? Makes no sense to me...please explain as I simply cannot fathom hauling around wet paintings out in the wilderness, but then I suppose I like to work in a very controlled way so it's obviously my issue. Maybe I'm weird-I have 36 hours in one painting once, but most of my work is done in 3-4 hours so I guess I am having a very hard time coming to grips with the waiting and the drying time just to move to the next step or detail BUT I need that buttery, smooth oil look so I am going to give WSOs a try but if I have to wait 4 days between coats of paint, I'll have to try something else-I'm not that patient-I cannot justify a month to finish a piece of work.

If oil takes so long to dry, how do they conduct workshops ? I'm baffled by that one....for example...I read in a magazine of an workshop doing a drawing , then laying in thinned out washes and letting dry overnight. Now to me 'overnight' means 8 hours...so last night after dinner I did exactly what they did in the article but using WN Artisian and Duo paints thinned with Weber Turpinoid to a watery like consistency and here we are 16 hours later and I can still lift the paint off of the canvas. What gives? Did overnight really mean 24 hours? or did I mix the wrong materials together?

Again, please excuse my ignorance about traditional oil technique, I'm coming to this quite green, but I'll take any and all advice....DVDs, online tutorials, books, materials, etc...I am open to any and all suggestions, advice and direction and look forward to hearing from the community.

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judyfilarecki
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PostSubject: Re: Painterly Designerly Type Learing WSOs ?!?!   Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:47 pm

Hi Mark,

Glad you found us. Lots of questions to be addressed. Janet does a lot of Alla Prima painting so maybe she would have more suggestions for you. I tend to have several paintings going at the same time so while one is drying I can work on another. I also work in areas so there is usually some area on a painting that I haven't worked on in a few days, especially if it is a large painting.

If you are paying attention to the "fat over lean" rule, you can usually paint over a leaner area by the next day if it is "touch" dry without disturbing the layer below as long as you have not added too much oil to the top layer. Also the fact that some areas are still workable the next day gives you the advantage of being able to blend new colors into the previous ones. This is definitely a plus compared to acrylics that dry before you have a chance to do more blending.

I'm not sure if using turpenoid to make a paint more watery interferes with drying time because it would be re-moistening the layers below and also would make the layer leaner. Leaner layers over fat layers have a tendency to crack in time. WS Oils have been designed so you don't need to use turpenoid and as mentions by the others above, there are thinners and glazing mediums and other things designed specifically for WS oils that would probably work better.

Hope that answers a few questions. Oh, one other thing. I would suggest only using the quick drying medium for the lower layers. Using it on outer layers over areas that have not completely dried will definitely result in cracks. I made that mistake the first time I dried the fast drying medium.

Many people paint a lot of the initial painting with acrylics and then add a fine film of oil (I use walnut oil) over the whole canvas and then complete the paintings with all the details, blendings and highlights with the WS oils.

Good luck,

Judy

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ftariqtx
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PostSubject: Re: Painterly Designerly Type Learing WSOs ?!?!   Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:36 pm

Hi Mark:

I saw the three paintings you posted. Holly cow batman!... you are absolutely "Wondertabulous"... Very Happy

I am new to the wet media. So here are my few cents worth. If you feel something does not sound right. Please do raise a flag, I am sure someone will chime in and correct me, which will be good for me as well.

As they say ignorance is a bliss. Therefore, I am blissfully ignorant of how gouache works, making my frustration totally local to water soluble oil, and it is not because I can compare it to any other wet media.... Wink

As weird as it may sound, the whole charm of oil paint (well at least one of them, from my point of view) is that it does not dry quickly, that way one can just push paint around and change the value, intensity and hue to their hearts content. There are some quick drying medium for the oil paint, but I don't use it so I don't know much about it.

As Judy said, when you do wet-into-wet you must do lean over fat.

As far as Plein Air painting is concerned there are carriers to carry wet paints in a safe way so that it does not get banged around and messed up.

You just have to dive into it... start very simple... stumble a little bit. Failure is the greatest teacher... I am struggling as well but I think I am beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

If you can afford it, take a workshop, as it will answer your questions quickly and you can simply get to the fun stuff.

Take Care

M. Ghalib.
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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Painterly Designerly Type Learing WSOs ?!?!   Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:37 am

As Judy said I mainly work Alla Prima. If I'm going to have an underpainting the easiest way I've found is to do it in thinned down acrylics or use the Lukas Berlin quick drying medium (that medium makes the paint dry really fast) Next for the main painting I lay my colors side by side and blend the edges. You can put paint on top of a wet layer it just needs to be done with finesse and the paint needs to be thicker then the previous layer.

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Weaverville Studios

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PostSubject: Re: Painterly Designerly Type Learing WSOs ?!?!   Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:00 pm

Thanks everyone for being so helpful suggestive and kindly polite to such an oil novice such as myself Smile ...Yes I did pose too many random questions-I need to clean those posts up a bit but I have one pressing question right now... confused

In today's parcels was my order of Lukas Berlin Speedy-Dry and I have yet to try it...I am intending tonight before bed to do a few test panels by mixing my newly-acquired Lukas Wonder-Liquid with my WSOs and note the time & date and I may try a few different commonly used colors as well since colors dry at differing rates, but my one question is (Janet perhaps?!?!?) is just HOW much faster can I expect a WSO with a dab of Lukas Berlin Speedy-Dry to dry? 1 hour? 6 hours? 12 hours? 24 hours? The main reason I'm curious is that JIC it dries when I'm sleeping or at the office tomorrow when I can't test it, I'm just trying to get a sense of the drying time frame for posterity.

Thanks again-Mark
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watermixableguy
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PostSubject: Re: Painterly Designerly Type Learing WSOs ?!?!   Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:34 pm

I tend to paint in thin layers. I mix WSO thinner and a bit of medium. My paint piles develop a skin in a day or so, and the thin layers on the canvas get tacky in a day or two. But yes, certainly slower than acrylic.

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Crystal1



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PostSubject: Re: Painterly Designerly Type Learing WSOs ?!?!   Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:00 pm

A friend of mine has used the Lukas Berlin Speed Dry and he said it usually took about 4 hours for the paint to dry. Of course, the dry time will depend on how much of the Speed Dry that you use in your paint. His caution is not to add the speed dry to the paint on your palette, but to mix it in with each brush of paint, otherwise the palette paint may dry up before you are finished painting. Happy painting.
Dayle
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