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 About to give up on the Golden Opens

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MistyIslanddd



Posts : 36
Join date : 2011-06-21

PostSubject: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:53 pm

My big problem with them, along with the stickiness, is the fact that they change color drastically after they dry. They get sticky, I add medium. It makes them shiny. Then I add water. Water makes them dull. I just can't find a happy medium. I'm considering mixing them with water soluble oils like Donna Clark did. I would like to ask her some questions, but I understand she is not active anymore in the forum.

Does any one know...if you add the Golden Opens to Holbein duo, is there a color change with the Golden Opens? That could make for a strange painting if the color change was not uniform.

I tried to even out the differences in gloss with varnish, but it didn't work.

Any comments or opinions would be welcome!
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judyfilarecki
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Join date : 2009-11-16
Location Location : Northern NY and Southern Arizona

PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:05 pm

Hi Misty,

Sorry you're having so much trouble. with the Opens. I find that they work better if your brush is damp. I sometimes go from color to color without re-wetting (squeeze out extra water) the brush and they don't move as easily. I also find that misting the palette helps or working on a sta-wet palette helps.

The one thing unique about the Opens is that you can reactivate it with water within a few hours of applying it. Because of this, I find I do have to be careful not to overwork an area with a new color unless I want it to start mixing with the color below.

You mentioned using mediums. There are ones specific to Open acrylics. Are they the ones you are using?

Donna Pierce Clark
Quote :
The Open acrylic gloss medium functions as a medium for the Holbein Oils like it was made to go together.
The issue of changing colors I haven't really noticed except for he fact that acrylics naturally dry darker than when first applied. As far as the dullness and glossiness variation, that usually equalizes out once you put an acrylic sealer over it.

Here's Donna's more recent information so that you might contact her. If you can't, I keep in contact with her personally and can give her your contact information if need be so she can get in touch with you.

http://donnapierceclark.com/

I have used Opens with Holbein and just mixed the two colors on the palette and added a little walnut oil if it was needed for fatter layers.

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MistyIslanddd



Posts : 36
Join date : 2011-06-21

PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:26 pm

Hi Judy,
I think I was using Liquitex slow dry blending medium. It definitely adds shine, but it seems to make them more workable. Yes, they do dry darker, and if you come back and try to match a color when touching an area up, it is well nigh impossible.

I have been working with a sta wet palette, and that is a whole n'other story! If I follow the sta wet instructions, I close up the palette and the paints are runny as water the next day. I've tried just making the sponge damp instead of soaking wet as they recommend, and it is the same. If I don't use the sta wet palette, they are sticky. I haven't fooled around with them and the Holbeins, but that is next on my agenda. I think if I can use them together they will not be wasted. Maybe they will dry faster that way.

I originally wanted to work with the GO's because of their drying speed. I was doing a project for my grandson's bedroom, and needed to get it done quick, but they are just not a pleasure to work with, as oils are. It could be because I am in an extremely dry climate, that I can't get them to act the way I want them to. I do like them with illustration board and the colorfix primer, so maybe I should confine myself to that support. I think the more absorbent ground makes them dry quickly, but they remain blendable, and don't seem to get sticky. The ground has that drying effect on oils as well.

Thanks for your advice and suggestions.

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judyfilarecki
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PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:36 am

The colorfix primer sounds like a good solution. Half the year I live in a very dry climate, too. With the Sta-wet, I tend to only use a little paint at a time. Since there isn't much paint left over, it doesn't bother me that the
remaining paint is runny, because I always add more fresh paint for the
day. If there is a mix I want to make sure is preserved for the next day, it is still wet so it is easier to match. Hope that helps.

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MistyIslanddd



Posts : 36
Join date : 2011-06-21

PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:19 pm

That does help...I hadn't thought of leaving a little of the mix so it would stay wet and easier to match. I've been doing backgrounds, and they look so much better in oil when you can easily blend colors and have it not look plastered on. As I read this, I realize that it is my inexperience with acrylics that are hindering me. I just don't think I am an acrylic person!

I was doing landscapes on the colorfix, and I think that I was not being as critical with color matching as I was with the portraits.

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judyfilarecki
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PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:30 pm

Portraits are tough. I can see why you would want to use the ws Oils because of the ease in blending.

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new to oils



Posts : 48
Join date : 2011-10-24

PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:35 am

Hi, I totally understand the problems you are having with Open's. I tried them too, just last week, thinking they were the solution to my quick drying problem. But, I really don't recommend them...

They ARE very sticky, and I found that using them straight from the tube, they look absolutely FANTASTIC when wet, all juicy and gorgeous, but they lose all that luster when they dry and if you go, even a little thick, they flatten out a lot. Some colours also get duller....

I haven't used w/s oils before but I am purchasing them, or regular oils, (trying to decide, put my first post up here a few minutes ago with questions) because I can't use these Open acrylics.

You should also be aware, that on their mediums, they write, and on the Golden site as well, that not all the ingredients are fully tested for toxicity, they are still testing lots of the ingredients in their products. And they are relatively new, only 3 years on the market. I don't know... but I don't feel too comfortable not knowing whether or not a product is or isn't harmful to breath....

Regardless, even though I have yet to actually test the w/s oils out, I KNOW they must be better, and more versatile than the Open...

Hope you find a paint line you love and works for you!! Very Happy

All the best!! Very Happy
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MistyIslanddd



Posts : 36
Join date : 2011-06-21

PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:19 am

Hi New to Oils,

I got over the stickiness with the Golden Opens by using their thinner instead of water, but I had a hard time getting used to the darkening after drying. I still use them occasionally in my animal portraits. Right now I'm having a love-hate relationship with them: I like the semi fast drying quality, but hate the lack of juiciness and the variegated drying.

Right now I am painting with regular oils and sometimes WS oils. I have no allergies, and don't mind the cleanup with Gamsol for regular oils. Gamsol in CA is very expensive though, since you can't buy it in gallons due to Prop 65. It becomes twice as expensive for CA residents. The largest quantity you can buy is 32 oz. I may just clean up with Walnut oil if I can find a good buy on a larger quantity.

I like the WS oil for travel. I can just put them in my checked luggage and I am good to go. They take a little getting used to, but since you don't have a benchmark, I suggest you give a few tubes a try. The Lukas Berlin brand is pretty nice, and also the Holbein duo.

For regular oils I just bought some Lukas 1862. They have beeswax in them, and supposedly dry faster. Don't have them yet, but they get good reviews.
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new to oils



Posts : 48
Join date : 2011-10-24

PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:26 am

Hi MistyIslanddd!!! Thanks for your reply and nice to meet you!

I actually think my local Curry's doesn't sell any of the brands you mentioned.....
Do you know of any other good quality companies?

My store sells W&N, Grumbacher, and a few others...but not what you mentioned.....
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MistyIslanddd



Posts : 36
Join date : 2011-06-21

PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:44 am

Hi New to Oils,
I'm not sure where Curry's is, but I get all of my art supplies by mail from Art Supply Warehouse Express or Jerry's Artarama. They are the absolute cheapest. It sounds as if you are in Canada or the UK. If so, I'm not sure where you would get those brands. I think I have read from some people on this board that shipping can be expensive to Canada. If you are in the UK, you should be able to find Lukas Berlins somewhere, since they are a German brand. Jerry's and ASW have the exclusive on them in the States. I have no experience with Grumbachers, but don't like WN watersolubles.
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new to oils



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Join date : 2011-10-24

PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:02 pm

Oh...well I am in Canada......

Curry's is a Canadian art store retailer, they have specialty shops all across the Province of Ontario, (which I am in) not sure about the rest of Canada....

And they also have an online store. Their prices are very decent. But they don't carry quite as many brands as I see available online.

In w/s oils, they only carry MAX, which I heard were the first w/s oils back in 1992, and they carry W&N Artisan, which has more variety as well as more mediums, (at least in the store)

Is there anything bad about them specifically that you don't like them? could you please tell me? I'd like to know if there's something not too great about them before spending money. Though as far as w/s oils, if I want variety, they're pretty much my only choice.....
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MistyIslanddd



Posts : 36
Join date : 2011-06-21

PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:13 pm

WN Artisans are sometimes stiff and hard to get out of the tube. Judy, one of the moderators here, likes them though, and puts Walnut oil in them to help with that problem. Don't use water as a medium and you will be fine. I like a creamier consistency, and Lukas fits that requirement.

Many people on this forum use the WN's, and love them. If you look at some of the older posts in the forum you will get an idea of the qualities of all of the WS paint choices.
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new to oils



Posts : 48
Join date : 2011-10-24

PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:21 pm

Thank you! I actually kind of like a paint you have to wrestle with a knife Wink

As far as colour or quality though, do you think they match up?

I will for sure check out the older posts. Very Happy
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Crystal1



Posts : 639
Join date : 2010-02-05
Location Location : Ft Worth, TX

PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:15 pm

new to oils, W/N Artisan's are considered to be an artist grade paint with good strong pigment. Personally, they are a problem for me because they are so thick and sticky, but many people do swear by them. I would only buy 2-3 tubes to start with, so you can see if they are workable for you. Happy Painting!
Dayle
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judyfilarecki
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PostSubject: Re: About to give up on the Golden Opens   Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:36 pm

I have split this topic at this point because it has gotten too far off topic.

You can find the continuation of talking about gessoed surfaces under oils at

http://watersolubleoils.forumotion.com/t736-preparing-gessoed-surfaces-for-ws-oils

Judy

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