Revisiting mediums, Reviews and Restarting a painting after it has dried to the touch

WOW!!! This is absolutely breathtaking. Thanks for sharing.
Dayle

Terry, your painting is magnificent!

You have tons of talent and obviously have some experience painting. Thanks for posting a sample of your work. It truly inspires newer oil artists like myself.

Coming from acrylics, oils are a whole new world to me. When I tried the Max - the first oils I ever used - there was a steep learning curve for me - and my teacher, who had never painting in oils either. It was all an experiment. There was no conversation about fat over lean, mediums, breaking down binders in the paint, or any other "oil rules of the road". She just demonstrated painting in very thin layers.

Interestingly, I was the only one in class to use the Max oils and she hated them. Way too stiff for her tastes. She had ordered the Max 2 (she didn't know about student grade or professional grade oils) for the class because they were cheaper - and the other students were reluctant to invest in new paints unless the price was right. I had gone to Dick Blick where they explained the difference and thought it would be better to go with the professional line because there was way more pigment in the paint. But then, I feel that using better stuff gives you a leg up anyway. The Max 2 the rest of the class was using did move better but the teacher did discourage us from using water because it did make the paints sticky. You seemed to have conquered that problem because your results are amazing. Needless to say, I got very frustrated and she did not have the experience with oils to help me through the technical issues with these paints. So I stopped painting for a long while.

So many traditional oil artists, many teachers included, continue to disparage these W/S oils. I went to a workshop this past June and I felt like a leper for not using liquin and regular oils. The day I tried the Cobra painting medium with my predominantly Holbein paints, they started getting sticky and the teacher seemed uncomfortable demonstrating with them. The next day I put out fresh paints and used them straight and she agreed they were better - but of course not as good as hers mixed with the liquin. It truly is whatever you get used to.

It's nice to see such amazing paintings coming out of W/S oils, which are indeed oil paints albeit with a little twist. And whatever brand of W/S oils or for that matter any other medium you get comfortable with, if artwork as lovely as your Madonna and Child and other works coming from the talent on this board can be produced with these paints, I say keep doing what you're doing. Respect for this medium will be garnered by deeds and the work speaks for itself.

Thank you very much for your kind words. I am 66 and I have been painting since I was 28. I quit for awhile because the turpentine had such an odor and it gave me headaches. I did many paintings in pastels, mostly portrait commissions and paintings of my daughters and son, and my grandchildren. Then when water soluble oils came out, I think Max was the first, at least it was the first I read about, I bought them and never looked back. I also do some sculpture and china painting. I have some work in a gallery about 10 miles from me, for about 2 months. I just sold a painting of Houmas House plantation, with ghosts of the past in it. I called it The Ghosts of Houmas House. Thanks again. It is nice to know someone appreciates what I do. I paint every day and I love it. Can't imagine a life without art. Terry

Very lovely painting, Terry. Thanks for posting it. It is so interesting to see what everyone else is doing.

Beautiful work Terry. The skin tones are lovely and the look of love radiates out from the face of Madonna.

Thank you Sofie and Judy. I appreciate the comments.
I like this forum, a lot of good information.Terry

Hi Terry I know I'm a little late responding but I would just like to say that your painting is a masterpiece. Very well done!

Hi Bliss! Same as you I always found that the Holbein don't mix well with most brands. The only brand that I found worked well together with the Holbein is the Lukas Berlin but they tend to be a little too oily sometimes which makes for a different feel that throws me off. What I have found is a difference in the way that water behaves with different brands. I use 1/2 water and 1/2 linseed oil as my medium and have been using that combination for about 2 years with no problems until I try adding a different brand other then the Lukas Berlin. I prefer the Lukas Berlin Titanium and use it instead of the Holbein Titanium White.

Thank you Janet for your comment. It means a lot coming from a fellow painter and moderator of this forum.

Hi Janet!

I occasionally use the Lukas Berlin as well when I can't find a color but have never tried their Titanium White. The LB paint is very juicyand loose usually to the point that the tubes leak out the paint onto the palette, whereas the Holbein seems more buttery. It was your post I found from long ago that clued me in recently on your medium. It works! Thanks so much for that. Not having an acceptable medium has always been a sticking point with these paints for me.

BTW, Congrats on winning a starter set of Cobra. I just received mine. I have used their Transparent Oxide Red (one of my favorite colors to tone with) successfully with the Holbein paints but did not have the same success with the Cobra mediums. I'll try them out soon with the new Cobra set. The Holbein painting medium is pass out smelly.

Thanks for posting on the Cobra site. That's how I found y''all here.

Since I started using the medium that Titanium recommended, I find that I can now paint with the Artisan WSOs, as well as the Cobra WMOs. I thought I was going to have to sell the Artisan paints, in order to get more Cobra colors, but now I think I'll just use them up and replace them with Cobras as I run out. I have even been able to combine the Artisan, Lukas Berlin, and Cobras in a color mix with this medium and it works out fine. Titanium recommended using 1/3 walnut oil and 2/3 Stand oil as a medium, and using it in very small amounts to start with and using more on each layer. I tried using 1/3 stand oil, 1/6 Walnut Oil, and 1/6 distilled water. It worked great with the Cobras. Then I had some of that medium left over so I went ahead and used it with the Cobra, Lukas Berlin, Artisan skin color that I mixed. I expected it to be sticky because of the distilled water and Artisan WSO, but it worked just fine. I think I'll try to add more distilled water or Artisan Thinner to it next time, at least in the beginning stages. Very excited and happy that I can at least practice painting again!

Dayle

Dayle,
I'm glad they are working out for you. I've used Artisan mostly from the timew I started and finding the right medium an dlearning how to work with them, solved all my problems.

Bliss, Happy Birthday!

Judy

Crystal,

Just wondering if your medium recipes allow the paints to remain water soluble.

Also, the second recipe only add up to 2/3 parts. Could you give us the ratios again please with the distilled water? Would you know if these works with Holbein?

BTW, I have mixed Holbein Dup, Lukas and the Cobras successfully with Janet's medium recipe of 1/2 Duo linseed oil and 1/2 water. And also able to mix those brands straight (no medium) without a problem.

Thanks!

Bliss

I use walnut oil all the time and the paints remain water-soluble and clean up with soap and water.
Judy

Bliss: To make the formula easy for me to figure out, I just put 1/3 Walnut oil and 2/3 Stand oil into a small container, then I added about half that amount of water. I will probably keeping messing around with the formula. The stand oil is pretty rich and heavy, and I like the fact that the Walnut Oil doesn't yellow like linseed oil. Preferrably, I would like to add more water or Artisan Thinner to it, and maybe at least 50/50 on the Walnut Oil and Stand Oil. It is a bit harder to get the paint out of your brushes when you use Walnut Oil. I keep a jar with a solenoid coil and Dawn detergent and water to clean the brushes while painting and an extra jar with plain water to rinse them in. Afterwards, I use my Masterson Brush Cleaner. Seems to work smoothly for me. I tried the linseed oil and water or Thinner with my Artisan paints, but they still didn't work as well for me. OH! HAPPY BIRTHDAY, BLISS!

Dayle

If you are using Walnut oil and water in a mixture, don't the water and oil repel each other, since the walnut oil is not water soluble? Or do they remain clearly separate, but without any negative effect?

I imagine that is why it might be harder to get the paint out of the brushes when using the walnut oil - since the water will not break down the non-soluble walnut oil. But since one can clean brushes with soap and water when using traditional oils, I would guess this would be about the same experience.

Don

Yes, when I get ready to use the medium, I shake it up first. It looks kind of milky and has tiny little beads in it. But when I use it, I know that I get some water in the paint too, because the paint looks more matte than when I paint without this medium. Several other people at Wetcanvas were having the same problem that I was, and when Titanium shared her medium, the people that said they tried it were very excited--like me.

Dayle

Several companies recommend keeping the use of conventional oils at 30% or less to retain the mixable quality. As long as the walnut oil mix is not above that level it shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure what long term effect there might be from storing the oil mixed with water. You might consider just adding water in a separate container when you're ready to paint.

By the way, all oils will yellow in time. That's their nature. Walnut is claimed to do so less noticeably than linseed, but I've never seen that proven. If the amount of linseed medium you use is minimal it shouldn't be an issue.

Thank you, David! Do you think I should just make enough medium for 1 days painting at a time? I usually keep a very small jar of the medium through the use of 1 painting. Each time it's ready for another coat, I just a few more drops of the walnut oil/stand oil medium, so that each coat is more fat, as I go. I usually only need 1 drop of oil to a 1/2" line of paint. I appreciate the time you take to help me learn more!
Dayle

Love this discussion. Now I have some options to play with. I think the Masters brush cleaner is key to even cleaning up non W/S oils so that is a great tip.

And thank you so much, Crystal, on the birthday wishes!

In the past I've made my own medium mixtures using conventional oils and turpentine, usually including a resin. It always bothered me to mix too much ahead of time that sat for any long period in solvent where the oil could break down, so I wound up only make about an ounce or so. That would be my recommendation, although I don't have any information on possible risks.

It is possible that the fact that there is no solvent may make the difference in how long you can prepare it ahead. Janet always uses a mixture of medium and water. She would be a good one to ask. I think she is away again so it might not get answered right away.

Judy

I bought some walnut oil and rubbed it lightly on a section of a painting I am working on. It is great. No drag at all and I can use less paint because it seems to glide on. I don't know yet how subsequent layers of paint will go on, whether it will stick or become resistant to the new paint but right now I am enjoying using it. Thanks to whoever suggested this method. I will let you know how the painting progresses. Terry

Terry,

I'm glad it is working for you. I really like the walnut oil because things glide so easily and I do use less paint. One thing to remember, the layer you wipe on should be very thin to a point where you gently wipe over it to remove any excess keeping it very lean. This helps you maintain the fat over lean rule also as you add more layer.

Judy