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 Need help with red sable brushes

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brushstrokebliss



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Join date : 2010-05-10

PostSubject: Need help with red sable brushes   Fri May 14, 2010 10:51 am

Went to the WetCanvas W/S forum and noticed how it has grown by leaps and bounds from when we finally were allowed to have our own forum. I also noticed that many of the regulars weren't so regular. I haven't painted since that forum started and have just recently been able to paint again. While doing some research on the new Cobra line, I found Janet (Hi Janet!) on their facebook page and noticed you all had your own website now. Thanks for the link! Nice to have found y'all!

Well here's my brush problem. Winsor Newton discontinued their 700 series short handled red sables. I rely on the brights (710) for all my detail work - especially birds. These brushes work well with these paints and hold a chisel edge perfectly. I usually start a painting with long handled synthetic filberts like W/N Artisan, Princeton 6300, DaVinci TopAcryl. I will be ordering some RS Titanium brushes at the suggestion of many of the posters here as well.

But now I need some more red sables. Although I prefer the short handled ones from my days with decorative arts (nice to be up close and personal when doing fine detail work), I would be happy to try a long handled one (and can always saw it down if necessary if I find the handle too unwieldly. Perhaps some of you use a synthetic sable you like with our paints as well. I haven't tried a synthetic since these sables worked so well.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Bliss
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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Need help with red sable brushes   Fri May 14, 2010 11:36 am

Hi Bliss! Great to hear from you again! I'm sooo glad you found us. I'm sorry I really haven't discovered a brush a works well for detail work yet but I'm really interested in finding out what everyone else is using because I've been on the hunt for a good detail brush as well for WSOs. (wee bit of a run on sentence, I type the way I talk Laughing) I do use the RS Titanium brushes and I love them but unfortunately they don't carry liner brushes or any brushes that would be good for detail work. Welcome to the forum! Smile

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http://janet-coloredpencil.blogspot.com/
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Crystal1



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Join date : 2010-02-05
Location Location : Ft Worth, TX

PostSubject: Re: Need help with red sable brushes   Fri May 14, 2010 11:59 am

Hi, Bliss. Nice to meet you! Glad you found this group. Unfortunately, I'm still having trouble converting to the WMOs, so I can't really help you with what brushes to use. Welcome!
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Callie
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Location Location : St. Louis, MO USA

PostSubject: Re: Need help with red sable brushes   Fri May 14, 2010 2:10 pm

Glad you could join us!

I found these at ASW online. They're red sable made for watercolor, so I would assume short handles:

http://www.aswexpress.com/discount-art-supplies/online/3640/art-supplies/6
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brushstrokebliss



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Join date : 2010-05-10

PostSubject: Re: Need help with red sable brushes   Fri May 14, 2010 10:08 pm

Hi Janet, Crystal and Callie. Thanks for the warm welcome.

Callie, I just spent today at AI Friedman buying up canvas and relooked at their brushes all over again. Obviously they do not have every brush but thye do have a dcent selection. I did see some W/N watercolor sables, however they were not the "one stroke" you listed. The sizing is always a mystery as well since my 710's are numbered (2,4 etc.), not in inches. The brushes I did see for water color were extremely soft. Watercolor brushes as you pointed out are usually short handled like decorative arts brushes and they would hold up to water - a good thing for us. But if they are too soft they will not be able to push the oil paint around or hold a chisel for detail. If glazing is the goal - not what I want them for - then I guess they would be fine. Even a soft brush like Robert Simmons Expressions (a nice synthetic) would work for glazing as they do chisel up nicely - but they would not be the best choice for straight oils. I will check out Jerry's (sister to ASW) to see if they have the ones you listed in the store and report back. Not even sure if they are brights or flats since it was not specified on their webpage. Flats are way too sloppy a brush for sable oil brushes.

And Janet, liners usually are used with thinned paint, either with water or medium (fat over lean) depending on the stage. I have used them with straight oils rarely as the liner brush gets too weighted down and loses its point. Look for a synthetic or real sable liner and thein the paint for detail - like hair or eyes, etc. The ones I have are the W/N 740s - also discontinued. Bah! The titaniums (synthetic hoghair) are too stiff for lining. I will experiment with my other liners that I use with acrylics to see which works best and will pass the info on.

Anyone else using sables? Thanks
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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Need help with red sable brushes   Fri May 14, 2010 11:55 pm

Bliss, thank you for the tip on the liner brush and I look forward to hearing back regarding which one works best. Smile

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http://janet-coloredpencil.blogspot.com/
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judyfilarecki
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PostSubject: Re: Need help with red sable brushes   Sat May 15, 2010 7:46 am

Hi Bliss,

I'm glad you have joined us. I wish I had a solution for you, but I don't. I do share your frustration, though, because businesses always seem to discontinue the products that work the best for the more refined customer. I guess you just have to be average to have them keep producing what you buy. I'll keep an eye out for the sable brushes.

Judy

Here is a link for a store I teach at in Tucson. You can order online. This page has a listing of synthetic sables of all sizes.
http://www.arizonaartsupply.com/cgi-bin/azart.cgi/scan/fi=tree/st=db/bs=1/va=mt=Brushes%3AOil%20and%20Acrylic%3APrinceton%20Synthetic/se=z/op=eq/ml=1/si=yes/sf=category/sp=Brushes.html

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Jim
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PostSubject: Re: Need help with red sable brushes   Sat May 15, 2010 10:49 am

Hi Folks:

W&N stopped making the brushes I liked too . I used their Cirrus 550 Kolinsky Sable Short Flat/Brights (long handles). The sable hairs were very short giving the user great control. They wore fairly quickly, which was actually a good thing! The smaller size flats wore into a wonderful triangular shape, perfect for making the thinnest of thin lines with them. I still have a few left and cherish them dearly.

I now buy the Utrecht 211 Kolinsky Red Sable brushes (also long handles). The sable hairs are much longer than those of the Cirrus. While I am still learning what they can do, I have found that they hold shape well while painting, allowing the creation of fairly thin lines (using the side rather than the wide flat). They don't wear as quickly as the Cirrus, so I still don't know if they will eventually form that nice triangle. They aren't made in as wide a range of sizes as the Cirrus -I would like a smaller size.

I guess we have to look at the positive side -we are trying something new.

Regards,
Jim
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brushstrokebliss



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Join date : 2010-05-10

PostSubject: Re: Need help with red sable brushes   Sat May 15, 2010 8:43 pm

Thanks Jim for the Utrecht brush suggestion. I'll have to look into it.

Just wanted to pass along some new info. I called a master decorative artist friend who teaches (she started me on birds) and had used the WN 700 series sables in her books. The great news is she didn't want to live without them so she worked with the manufacturer of the WN brushes. She now has her own line of brushes identical to the old 700 series. The only thing is they are limited in size to the brushes she uses. They are actually the most useful for me, especially when I work smaller.

Janet, she has two nice rounds (like a liner) sizes 0 and 1 that work great for details. I also think kolinsky sable liners are great when paint is thinned because they hold alot of paint (for lining or scrolling you can work a long time before it runs out and you have to reload.) And Jim, if you are looking for smaller size sable brights, she has them in 0, 2, 4, 6 and 8. They are firm, springy, chisel up and blend well. These are short handled brushes.

http://www.sherrycnelson.com/brushes/brushes.html

I have been trying to contact Betty Byrd brushes without any luck. They have larger sables as well - or do they? Betty passed away a few years ago and her children are running the business so I do not know if they are still fulfilling brush orders. I'll keep you all posted.

Also, someone kindly told me about Rosemary brushes in the UK. They are custom made and they have a huge selection of brushes. You can google it (sorry my puter is giving me fits today) and they will send you a catalogue.

BTW, I received my sample of Cobra today (red pyrrole - a color often found in acrylics). Can't wait to try it out - and hear what everyone here has to say about it.
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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Need help with red sable brushes   Mon May 17, 2010 8:02 am

Bliss, Thank you for the link and info on liner brushes. I didn't realize the Cobra sample would only be once color. Oh well it should give us some idea as to how they feel and work. Smile

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http://janet-coloredpencil.blogspot.com/
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kopo

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Location Location : Cromer, Norfolk, England

PostSubject: Re: Need help with red sable brushes   Tue May 18, 2010 3:36 pm

Hi
Having been disappointed in the past, several years ago I discovered Rosemary Brushes. I actually saw her making them The care, WOW. I have used her 'Ivory' selection regularly and her delivery and prices are fantabuloglorious.
Jack
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