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 New to painting, have questions

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mes2370



Posts : 24
Join date : 2010-02-19
Location Location : Cleveland, OH

PostSubject: New to painting, have questions   Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:01 pm

Hello,

I just started painting with traditional oils and wanted to try w/s oils because I don't care for the solvents for cleaning etc... First, let me say that I have only tried the Bob Ross wet on wet technique, but would like to expand to other techniques and look forward to learning all I can.

I went to my local art supply store where they have a large selection of painting supplies and picked up w/s Ivory Black, w/s Zinc white (they were out of titanium white which is what I wanted), and w/s linseed oil (all W&N Artisan). I thought before I spent more money I would try some monochromatic/B&W paintings to get a feel for the paint.

A few questions:

1. The zinc white said "mixing white" underneath the name, what does that mean?
2. Do I have to worry about the w/s linseed oil yellowing the white/light colors like I have read happening sometimes on online forums/articles?
3. Do you use the w/s linseed oil straight from the bottle or do you need to mix it with anything?
4. They also had W&N Artisan Stand Oil, does anyone use it, what is it used for, or should I just avoid it?

Sorry if this is a lot to ask for my first post, but again, with my only painting experience coming from a BR wet on wet technique I have never used any of these mediums. Just paint, odorless paint thinner, liquid white/clear.

Any advice is appreciated.
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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: New to painting, have questions   Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:33 am

Hi mes2370! Welcome to the forum! Please feel free to ask as many questions as you would like.

1. "Zinc White (Mixing White) is the most transparent white, making it ideal for stronger tints and glazing. Artisan whites are ground in modified safflower oil to produce the whitest whites." You need a great deal of it to make a color lighter.

2. The Zinc White does have Saflower in it. If you use linseed oil as your medium I would use it on the darker colors and use the lighter colors straight out of the tube or purchase w/s saflower oil for the lighter colors.

3. You can use w/s linseed oil straight from the bottle or mix it with other mediums such as the w/s thinner. I think this is one that is a matter of preference. As per W&N: "If you do make your own medium, mix the components thoroughly and stir every time before use."

4. As per W&N: "The flow and levelling of Artisan oil colours is improved by using Stand Oil. It is excellent for glazing and producing fine detail as it smoothes brushwork. Stand Oil is slow drying.

Stand oil is the most durable type of linseed oil. It is part polymerised by being heated in the absence of oxygen. This joins the oil molecules together leaving less space for oxygen and hence a longer drying time. The benefit of Artisan Water Mixable Stand Oil is that it produces a paler, more flexible film with excellent levelling properties. It is therefore a good glazing medium and can been combined with water or Thinner for this purpose. It also increases gloss and transparency."

Stand oil is less prone to yellowing. I've never used it.

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Janet
http://janet-coloredpencil.blogspot.com/
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mes2370



Posts : 24
Join date : 2010-02-19
Location Location : Cleveland, OH

PostSubject: Re: New to painting, have questions   Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:10 am

Thanks for the information.

Is w/s thinner like paint thinner/turpenoid but made to use with water or is it something different?

It was my understanding that with traditional materials, paint thinner, turpenoid, or other solvents even if odorless still released vapors that you still needed good ventilation to use. Is this the same for w/s thinner? I paint in my basement.

While painting (with traditional oils) I sometimes clean with paint thinner when going from one color to another (like from blue to yellow) to avoid contaminating the color. Do you use just straight water to do this with WSO? If so, when done painting with WSO is it safe to just dump the container of water you cleaned the brushes in down the drain or do you have to do something different?
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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: New to painting, have questions   Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:31 am

Most artists that use the Artisan line swear by the thinner and yes thinner=turpenoid/solvent and is recommended to be used instead of water.

The thinner and all w/s mediums are safe to use in enclosed areas and do not release any harmful vapors.

I use water to clean my brushes during painting. If you use non-toxic pigments I feel that it's safe to to dump the container of water you cleaned the brushes in down the drain.

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Janet
http://janet-coloredpencil.blogspot.com/
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judyfilarecki
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PostSubject: Re: New to painting, have questions   Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:15 pm

Hi Mes2370,
Welcome to the forum. Janet always gives such a complete response to questions just like many others in the forum. I always learn something new even though I've been using WSO for about 6 years. Now I know what stand oil is. I've always wondered but never thought to ask...thanks Janet

I just started using zinc white, and I like the transparency of it compared to the titanium. They each have their own unique function in painting so having each is a good idea.

I'm using the zinc white for the beginning highlights on flowers I am doing in the February Challenge. I'll probably finish up with small touches of the titanium white as the final highlight.

There are so many great parts of this forum that you might want to investigate and use. If you go to

http://watersolubleoils.forumotion.com/general-chat-f4/forum-news-and-announcements-t140.htm

there is a copy of the newsletter we sent out in January which gives you a good overview of all the different areas of the forum. If you have the time, take a look. There are so many things discussed and answered throughout the forum and I'm sure you will enjoy them and find many answers.

Judy Welcome

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mes2370



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Join date : 2010-02-19
Location Location : Cleveland, OH

PostSubject: Re: New to painting, have questions   Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:40 pm

Janet wrote:
If you use non-toxic pigments I feel that it's safe to to dump the container of water you cleaned the brushes in down the drain.

How do you know which pigments are toxic and which are not? Does the tube of paint say or can I find that out on the manufacturers website? Also, if some of the pigments I do use are toxic what do you recommend for disposing of it.

Thanks again for all the good advice. I'm glad I found this website.
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Callie
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PostSubject: Re: New to painting, have questions   Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:35 pm

Zinc white is not a good substitute for titanium (which is an opaque white), and there's some concern with it de-laminating/flaking off of the canvas or board. I wouldn't use it for underpainting or covering large areas. It is very nice for tinting since it doesn't overwhelm the original color.

Here's a thread about oils and mediums:

http://watersolubleoils.forumotion.com/water-soluble-oils-f5/what-mediums-if-any-do-you-use-with-ws-oils-t90.htm

And here's an item about the info on paint tubes - light-fastness, toxicity....

http://painting.about.com/od/paintingforbeginners/ss/PaintTubeLabel_3.htm

A tip for using the Thinner; I put a cap-full or so into my brush rinsing water. I tend to use the same brush/brushes through out a painting rather than different ones for different colors - so need to rinse them frequently. The thinner helps pull the color out. I'm not rich enough to blow through a bottle of thinner every time I paint, so the water + thinner combo works well for me.

As for getting rid of that rinse water... I do use some toxic pigments (cadmiums and cobalts), so I don't want to put it down the drain. Per advice from another artist - I put kitty litter in a lg. plastic bucket. I strain the water into that and wipe up the remaining sludge with paper towels. The kitty litter and paper towels can be bagged up and disposed of when dry.

Until you can find all the ws colors you want, you can mix your trad. oils with the ws oils and still paint without solvents. You'll just need some sort of oil to get the paint out of your brushes. Walnut oil is very nice for this, as it's a good painting oil too (safe to mix with your paints - not all oils are).

Welcome to the forum!
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mes2370



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PostSubject: Re: New to painting, have questions   Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:50 pm

Thanks again all for the wonderful information.

Callie, are both walnut oil and walnut alkyd (mentioned in the thread you linked) both safe to clean up with water when mixed with WSO? Meaning, are these two w/s mediums or traditional mediums that can be used with w/s products?

I read, I believe, on Judy's site that some w/s linseed oils can be sticky or tacky though I haven't had a chance to try the Artisan one I bought recently. Too busy painting, and not the good kind (my parents living room walls and ceiling). So maybe walnut oil might work better for my purposes. I guess I will have to experiment when I can.

-Mark
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judyfilarecki
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PostSubject: Re: New to painting, have questions   Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:48 pm

Hi Mark,

I use the walnut oil with my WS oils because linseed oil bothers my breathing (both the traditional linseed and the WS linseed)

The stickiness I found with Windsor Newton WSO was when I would add water to it to thin the paint. I haven't tried WS thinner, because I am so satisfied with the walnut oil.

I recent tried the walnut oil alkyd and it worked really well for speeding up the drying time of the WSO and also worked well for adjusting the consistency of the paint. My only problem with it was that it also bothered my breathing very badly. Having asthma really limits what I can use and is a consideration for others with the same problem.

The walnut oil cleans up with soap and water and is not a solvent like turps, so once you have cleaned excess paint off the brushes, it is safe to let the soapy water with the walnut oil go down the drain.

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Callie
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PostSubject: Re: New to painting, have questions   Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:38 am

Just as Judy says - soap and water. The walnut-alkyd can gum up your brushes if you don't give them a good cleaning when you're done painting (because it does dry quickly) - I like Dawn dish soap, it's made to cut through grease so it takes care of any kind of oil easily.
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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: New to painting, have questions   Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:37 am

Just an easy way to determine if a color is toxic AP=non-toxic and CL=toxic. It will be indicated on your tube of paint. Here's a link to Dick Blick. They mark the toxic colors with CL: http://www.dickblick.com/products/winsor-and-newton-artisan-water-mixable-oils/ If you click on the the color is gives you more info including details on toxicity. Smile

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Crystal1



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PostSubject: New to Water Soluble Oils   Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:41 am

Mes2370: If you haven't already bought a lot of the Artisan oils, may I make a suggestion that you try the Lukas Berlin Water Mixable oils. I recently bought a bunch of Artisan oils and also bought a few tubes of the Lukas Berlin because of someone else's advise. Now I have a whole lot of Artisan oils to go through before I can buy more of the Lukas Berlin's. They are exclusively available through Jerry's Artarama, now (as far as an on-line store in the US). A 200ml tube of the Lukas Berlin's paints cost more or less the same as a 40 ml tube of Artisan paint. They are not a professional paint, but when you are ready to have your paintings at a high class gallery, you will be able to switch over to the Holbein Duo's without having to change your painting style. I truly hate the stiffness of the Artisan oils. If you want to talk to someone who is using the water soluble oils in the Bob Ross style, contact Linus. He is a member here that seems to be succeeding in the Bob Ross style, using water mixable oils. Good luck.
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mes2370



Posts : 24
Join date : 2010-02-19
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PostSubject: Re: New to painting, have questions   Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:39 pm

Crystal1 wrote:
Mes2370: If you haven't already bought a lot of the Artisan oils, may I make a suggestion that you try the Lukas Berlin Water Mixable oils. I recently bought a bunch of Artisan oils and also bought a few tubes of the Lukas Berlin because of someone else's advise. Now I have a whole lot of Artisan oils to go through before I can buy more of the Lukas Berlin's. They are exclusively available through Jerry's Artarama, now (as far as an on-line store in the US). A 200ml tube of the Lukas Berlin's paints cost more or less the same as a 40 ml tube of Artisan paint. They are not a professional paint, but when you are ready to have your paintings at a high class gallery, you will be able to switch over to the Holbein Duo's without having to change your painting style. I truly hate the stiffness of the Artisan oils. If you want to talk to someone who is using the water soluble oils in the Bob Ross style, contact Linus. He is a member here that seems to be succeeding in the Bob Ross style, using water mixable oils. Good luck.

Thanks for the advice. Right now I only have two colors, black & white, of Artisan mainly because they were the only w/s oils at the art supply store I was at. I will look into the Lukas Berlin WSO as well as others.
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