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Janet
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PostSubject: Canvas paper   Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:57 am

I've decided to work with canvas paper. I like the fact that it doesn't take up a lot of room. I'm looking for your thoughts on different brands and how you prepare it or if you just paint rite on the canvas paper. I've noticed some big differences between the 2 brands I have rite now which leads me to beleive that they're not all made the same and one brand may be better then another for working in WSOs. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Smile

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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:06 am

I found this site on using canvas paper that I found interesting: http://www.ehow.com/how_4608891_save-money-learning-paint-oils.html

This statement was exactly what I found when I worked on canvas paper on my last painting and gesso seems to be the solution.

"Canvas paper is a plastic coated paper with an embossed surface that feels and looks like canvas. It is suitable for either oil or acrylic paints and does not absorb the medium. However, because of the slick surface and non-absorbant properties, the paper has definite drawbacks when it is used by the oil painter. The brush tends to slide across the paper without the 'drag' that is experienced when painting on a prepared canvas. To become a tool that works for the student, applying gesso is necessary."

Chantal, also provided some great tips on canvas paper that I had forgotten about located in this thread: http://watersolubleoils.forumotion.com/completed-paintings-f6/snow-plein-air-t117.htm

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Callie
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:20 pm

Have you (or anyone else) come across a brand that you especially like - and why?
I used a Paramount canvas sheet for the apple/glazing demo I did recently. It has a very slick and "plasticky" finish. I've got a Frederix canvas pad that feels a little less slick to the touch,but I haven't tried painting on it. The one Ive used most is a Strathmore pad of canvas-textured paper. I like the paper much better than the coated canvas sheets. It's slightly absorbent and has a fine linen-like texture - holds the paint well. I keep that one in my plein air bag because it works so well for quick oil sketches.

I think I'll gesso a few sheets of the slick stuff and see how that goes.
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dbclemons



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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:40 pm

"Canvas paper" is just paper with an embossed canvas surface, as I imagine you already know. The only thing I'd emphasize is to be certain the paper is declared to be of a good quality (at least acid-free.) I had once used some of this (can't recall the brand) that I used for color charts, and they severely yellowed and stained within a very short time frame as I performed lightfast tests. Whatever paper you decide on, test it by taping it to a south-facing sunny window for a few months to see how it holds up.

You could accomplish essentially the same thing by cutting up actual canvas without worrying about it's archival quanities. I suspect even average quality cotton duck is about the same cost as high quality paper stock. Loose canvas is flimsier than paper, but if you're planning on taping it down to a firm support anyway that won't be an issue. Fredrix sells this in pad form. All surfaces of this type should be permanently mounted to a rigid backing, regardless.

I often paint on paper, though rarely is it pre-textured. Instead of using an acrylic primer, which I dislike for oils, I just externally size it with a couple coats of shellac, or hide glue, or possibly diluted acrylic medium. This also helps cut down the absorbency of the paper and improve the surface quality.

If you decide to just use acrylic primer, it's recommended to have several coats to create enough of a barrier between the oil and paper. Who knows how many coats were applied to the canvas paper, so adding one or two more is wise. Just as with canvas preparation, the water content in the primer needs time to completely evaporate before you paint on it with oil, which may take several days, and you'll want to tape it or press it down so it dries flat. I'd also recommend starting with a thinned layer of oil underpainting, not so much for coloring purposes, but to help improve the receptiveness of the paint layers you'll be adding.
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judyfilarecki
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:11 pm

I use the Strathmore canvas paper for oils and acrylics. I did the apple from Callie's demonstration of glazing on it and I did not use gesso or anything else prior to applying the WSO and I had no problem.

I also use Canson Acrylic paper which is really inexpensive at Walmart. I use it mainly for practice. Each time I've used it, it did get some form of acrylic on it first such as the black gesso ones I did of the rose and glass. The one I did for the December challenge, the fruit bowl, had a stippled background of acrylics before I did the fruit bowl in WSO. I keep them clipped to a firm board until totally dry. There still is a little warp to the paper, but I figure if I frame it or mount it, that will be taken away.



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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:21 pm

Callie, I'm using the Fredrix Canvas Pad I like the weight but I still find it too slick. It doesn't really retain brushstrokes the way I like. I've gessoed my next one with black gesso. I'll probably take a hairdryer to it to speed up the drying as suggested in the thread I provided. The Strathmore canvas textured paper sounds good. One option I saw which I haven't tried yet is canvas paper in blocks. I usually just keep the paper on the pad which gives it support and I find with the Fredrix it doesn't curl. I think it's a fairly heavy paper. Smile

David, Thank you for the tips and information! It's great knowing what to look for in a good canvas paper. I like working on paper as well and if I need to gesso the canvas paper then paper is just as good an option for me. Smile

Judy, Thank you for sharing your experience with canvas paper! The Strathmore is sounding like a good option. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:51 pm

I use Frederix canvas pad. I really like it.

The Frederix canvas pad is real canvas, not paper, gessoed the same way they do their stretched canvas. You can add more gesso or not as you like. I cut it up slightly larger than than the size I want and tape it to plexiglass or thin foamboard with removable double sided tape (yes, there is such a thing!). That way I can paint out to the edges without it curling or leaving empty "tape spots" in the corners.

After they have dried for at least a couple of months, I mount the ones I like to plain hardboard that has been sealed with a coat of Golden GAC100. I use acrylic gloss medium as the glue and roll the painting with a brayer with heavy pressure to get a tight seal. Then I stack a drawing board and heavy books on top and leave it to dry a day or two. I usually do a few at a time and use my large drawing board and Gardner's "Art through the Ages" textbook (it weighs a ton!). After that, I flip it over and use a utility knife to trim the excess.

I often paint these in 5x7 or 8x10. I like this size because it's easy to find precut ungessoed 1/8" hardboard (I use Ampersand Hardbord). You can also use the really inexpensive precut, gessoed hardboard that they sell at Hobby Lobby. The gesso surface is really smooth, but you don't have to seal it, just glue your paper or canvas painting right to it. I put the finished paintings in an inexpensive photo frame with the glass popped out.
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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:25 pm

Debra, double sided tape that's a great idea. I have that "Art through the Ages" book too it's really good if you need a workout on your arms. I think I might stick with the Fredrix canvas paper for now it might just be a matter of getting use to the different feel from canvas. Thank you for your help! Smile

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Callie
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:39 pm

This is a little bit off-topic, but I'll add it to the mix -
For a paper-like surface, I like these multi-media art boards:

http://www.multimediaartboard.com/

No special prep required, and they come in black as well as white.
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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:43 pm

Thank you for the link Callie! That certainly would be another alternative for something that won't take up a lot of space. Smile

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dlspinks

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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:43 pm

Janet, I'm pretty sure what you have is the real canvas (I misspelled "Frederix" in my post). As far as I know, Fredrix doesn't make canvas paper.

Also, to clarify, other canvas paper products can be mounted the same way.
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judyfilarecki
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:46 pm

Debra,
There is a copy of the WSO Forum Newsletter for you in you mailbox. Please open it since it sits in my outbox until you do
Thanks, Judy

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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:28 pm

Debra, duh I didn't know their was a difference but yes you're rite it's not canvas paper but real canvas. Thank you for pointing that out! Certainly makes a big difference when you're wanting to purchase different brands to understand that their's canvas paper and real canvas sold in pads. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:18 pm

Another cheap alternative that you're all probably familiar with: get your local hardware store to cut up some MDF board for you. It's dirt cheap, works great for plein air work because it's opaque (the sun can come through stretched canvas and make it hard to work with outdoors). There is a process for finishing it, but many artists just gesso it. After reading many posts about treated MDF board, I have tried different processes and have developped one that suits me - I'll be happy to describe it if anyone is interested. One important thing is to start with untempered mdf. The tempered stuff has oil in it which may leach out into the paint. Of course if you paint large (say 16 x 20 or bigger), it becomes a tad heavy and no longer practical, but for small stuff, I love it.
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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:17 pm

MDF sounds like a good option and I would love if you shared your process. I'm always looking for options that I can pick up locally. I'm all ears. Maybe a new thread so it's easy to find would be a good idea. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:16 pm

Re: MDF, there's HDF (high density) and MDF (medium density) composite panels. It's HDF (aka hardboard, "Masonite") that's sometimes tempered with oil, typically "boiled" linseed or maybe tung oil, but the amount used is very tiny. MDF is not tempered, or certainly shouldn't be, but likely contains resin adhesives internally that will be even more acidic, not to mention the low quality wood fiber it's made of. An external size of either acrylic medium or shellac will help prevent any stain damage that may cause.
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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:50 pm

David, thank you for explaining the difference between HDF and MDF and the info on treating the wood. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:13 am

This is what I use http://www.dickblick.com/products/fredrix-canvas-pads/ which is a 7 ounce canvas that is primed.

I'm hoping my hobby lobby, which apparently sells more art supplies than any of their other stores in the country, will be getting Fredrix's pro line of canvas pads whichi is a heavier weight canvas seen here

http://www.dickblick.com/products/fredrix-archival-watercolor-canvas-pads/

I work alot with gouache, acrylic, ink, and watercolors, and now with oils!
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Janet
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:18 am

I like the Fredrix brand as well. The Fredrix is thicker then most so keeps it shape better. No curling.

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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:54 pm

I use a brand of canvass sheet called " Yes " sold at Hobby lobby. They say it is tripple primed cotton and is suitable for any wet medium. I'm using the 16"x20" size and like it very well. I can cut it to smaller size or use as is. I tape it to my board with two sided tape. I have been using two sided tape I bought at Lowe's. I think the roll I have now came with some plastic sheeting for covering your windows in the winter. Scotch Tape sells a brand but I liked what I got from Lowe's better.
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:12 am

Good idea with the two sided tape. Thank you for the tip!

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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Fri May 27, 2011 2:37 pm

One major issue I've noticed with Canvas Paper is that oil paints dry very dark because the paper does absorb some oil. They must be primed with gesso, or the paintings wll not look same after 6-months.

If primed right, they're very handy for studies and quick color sketches.

I cut them into various sizes like 6x8, 8x10, 9x12... and carry several in my plein air bag. Just tape them onto a cardboard with masking tape and they're ready!

Fredrix Canvas Pads is what I use.
http://www.aswexpress.com/discount-art-supplies/canvas-and-boards/pads/fredrix/cotton.html

Keiko
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Fri May 27, 2011 6:13 pm

Thanks for the suggestion about the masking tape. I'm doing a painting with Jerry Yarnell on PBS right now, and I wish I had thought to tape it. I also didn't gesso it first because he started the class with the under painting all ready done, and I rushed to catch up with an acrylic under painting which I dried with a hair drier so I could follow how he was painting. Thank goodness he usually takes about 5 shows to fiish a painting.

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dbclemons



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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Sat May 28, 2011 8:47 am

I'm a big fan of using properly prepared paper as a support for oils. I can easily make my own out of any paper stock I have which gives me more options and is more affordable.

From my own testing I've found that I need at least 4 coats of acrylic sizing to prevent oil from penetrating through to the paper. I tested several different acrylic mediums on very thin paper so it would immediately record any oil pentration. Actually, acrylic isn't the medium I prefer, but it does work well as sizing.

The best and easiest acrylic medium I'd recommend is Golden's GAC100 medium. It's thin enough to use as is without thinning, but I still need at least 4 coats, or 3 coats and 1 coat of primer. You do have to tape or staple the paper down like stretching watercolor paper in order to prevent it from buckling as it dries.

Another sizing I've used is rabbitskin glue. It works just as well as acrylic but also needs @ 4 coats from the testing I've made using a 10:1 mix (water to glue) which is about average strength. It also takes some time to prepare and heat up.

The best sizing medium I've used is shellac. With only 2 coats I can properly prevent oil penetrating through using just a 2-pound cut of shellac which is fairly thin. There are commercial brands of pre-mixed shellac at hardware stores, but I don't trust them as artist-safe material. I make my own from dry clear de-waxed flakes diluted in denatured alcohol. It's very simple to make, and dries in just a few hours. Since it doesn't require water, I don't have to tape down the paper. If you add any water to paper (as with acrylic mediums or RSG) you need to give plenty of time for it to completely evaporate before you start painting and that takes longer than you might think, at least 1 day or longer.
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PostSubject: Re: Canvas paper   Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:51 pm

I just bought a Fredrix 16"x12" pad from Hobby Lobby and mine says REAL CANVAS. Mybe it is a new addition. FYI. And it's primed.
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